Gini Dietrich

Why Brogan’s Bigger Ear Marketing Is Wrong

By: Gini Dietrich | January 12, 2011 | 
358

Chris BroganOne of the last people I want to antagonize is Chris Brogan, but I’ve been thinking about this all week so here goes nothing.

Dear Chris,

You are wrong.

Love,

Gini

On Monday, Chris had a blog post called “Bigger Ear Marketing for Authors.” In the post he extols wisdom about using Twitter and Foursquare searches to find people who are in bookstores. When found, he suggests tweeting those people to see if they can find your book in the store. And hence, a conversation is born.

Admittedly he says this approach doesn’t sell a few thousand books nor that it’s an efficient use of your time (I agree with both of those statements), but the problem I see is that 28 people in the comments section agreed with him. And, of those 28, I know some of them advise business leaders, not just published authors.

You guys. This is not a great idea, nor a great approach. We had the debate internally here. I said the same thing Scott Stratten said in the comments…that some people would think, “OMG! Chris Brogan just tweeted me!” And then they’d run to the business section, find his book, and tweet him a photo of them holding it up. Granted, that person may even buy his book.

But then our conversation turned to the financials of the time, effort, and sale of the books…which also can be related to the amount of time you spend with any sales effort.

The figure in sales is one percent for converting a cold customer. So, with this approach, you have to reach 100 people for every book (or product or service) you want to sell. Then you consider how much you make on each sale. Is it $5? Is it $10?

You track down 100 people through Foursquare and Twitter searches, you research them, and you send each of them a tweet. All to make $10.

I’m a prolific tweeter so I’d guess doing all of that would take me two hours. Maybe more. So I just made $5 an hour. And Chris has celebrity status so he probably makes $10 an hour because there will be a few people who will buy his book just because he tweeted them.

But most business leaders and even published authors are not prolific tweeters nor do they have celebrity status. Most aren’t even known in their industries yet and are busy not only trying to build a brand, but also pay the bills. Most would be lucky to net $2.50 an hour.

You tell me. Would you rather spend time “growing bigger ears” on something that will net you $10.00 or find something to do with your time that nets you $10,000?

About Gini Dietrich


Gini Dietrich is the founder and CEO of Arment Dietrich, an integrated marketing communications firm. She is the author of Spin Sucks, co-author of Marketing in the Round, and co-host of Inside PR. She also is the lead blogger at Spin Sucks and is the founder of Spin Sucks Pro.

  • KenMueller

    Wise words, Gini.

    And an aside to the 28 comments of people in the comments who agreed with him, I applaud you on disagreeing. As one of the “little guys”…a small local marketer, I sometimes question myself when I find myself disagreeing with a Brogan, or one of the other “superstars” out there on Twitter. I second guess, because, after all, they must be geniuses, etc etc etc. And yet, these days I find myself disagreeing with them more. But I still question whether I should blog about my thoughts. Will I be laughed out of the blogosphere for something that I missed? Will I be seen as someone who disagrees with a superstar just to be ornery, or solely for the purpose of link bait? I’m not one who rants often, so it might be out of character for me.

    I love the book Trust Agents, and refer to it often, but sometimes I think the social media celebrities have become untouchable. We fawn and hang on their every word.

    I think in this case, there are some valuable lessons we can learn about listening and monitoring, but as you pointed out, the ROI on this one is pretty pathetic.

    Again, thanks for this post!

  • KenMueller

    Wise words, Gini.

    And an aside to the 28 comments of people in the comments who agreed with him, I applaud you on disagreeing. As one of the “little guys”…a small local marketer, I sometimes question myself when I find myself disagreeing with a Brogan, or one of the other “superstars” out there on Twitter. I second guess, because, after all, they must be geniuses, etc etc etc. And yet, these days I find myself disagreeing with them more. But I still question whether I should blog about my thoughts. Will I be laughed out of the blogosphere for something that I missed? Will I be seen as someone who disagrees with a superstar just to be ornery, or solely for the purpose of link bait? I’m not one who rants often, so it might be out of character for me.

    I love the book Trust Agents, and refer to it often, but sometimes I think the social media celebrities have become untouchable. We fawn and hang on their every word.

    I think in this case, there are some valuable lessons we can learn about listening and monitoring, but as you pointed out, the ROI on this one is pretty pathetic.

    Again, thanks for this post!

  • Gini, I’m not sure I see the point of Chris’ post, since he does acknowledge that it’s neither efficient, nor did he “sell a few thousand books.” I suppose the point was to encourage people to try something different. I think that’s a good idea if one’s conducting a workshop for executives, say, to see how they can engage (I know, that word is overused, but still…) in SM when they’re not used to doing it, but it’s really not a practical use of anyone’s time.

    What I might have done, if I were trying something like this, would be to tweet the question “Hey, did you see my book in the marketing section if you’re at B&N”? or something like that, with one or two of the most appropriate hashtags. That way, it would reach a far wider audience (given Chris’ follower numbers). I’d set a time limit as to how long/often I would do this and see what happened. Maybe set up a search for those hashtags and reply to the folks using them. If I wanted to take this further, I might include some kind of incentive to those who replied/bought it – don’t know what – but that’s how I’d try to take the conversation further.

  • Gini, I’m not sure I see the point of Chris’ post, since he does acknowledge that it’s neither efficient, nor did he “sell a few thousand books.” I suppose the point was to encourage people to try something different. I think that’s a good idea if one’s conducting a workshop for executives, say, to see how they can engage (I know, that word is overused, but still…) in SM when they’re not used to doing it, but it’s really not a practical use of anyone’s time.

    What I might have done, if I were trying something like this, would be to tweet the question “Hey, did you see my book in the marketing section if you’re at B&N”? or something like that, with one or two of the most appropriate hashtags. That way, it would reach a far wider audience (given Chris’ follower numbers). I’d set a time limit as to how long/often I would do this and see what happened. Maybe set up a search for those hashtags and reply to the folks using them. If I wanted to take this further, I might include some kind of incentive to those who replied/bought it – don’t know what – but that’s how I’d try to take the conversation further.

  • HowieSPM

    Who is Chris Brogan? And why would someone craft this strategy? Does this person have a Book to sell or a bias angle that benefits them? Does this person possibly get overpaid to speak and needs a new Schitck so as not to get stale.

    Anyway this is push advertising at its most invading and startling. No better way to crash Location Based Services and have people FREAKING out about stalkers than this. When I find out who Chris Brogan is I am going to show up at restaurants he checks into or tweets from to say hi…many times..no matter what city he is in…and see if he says hello back.

    But it will take some research to see why this person is mentioned in a kick ass blog that covers PR, Marketing, and Social Media. Does he work for Tupperware is that how you know him?

  • HowieSPM

    Who is Chris Brogan? And why would someone craft this strategy? Does this person have a Book to sell or a bias angle that benefits them? Does this person possibly get overpaid to speak and needs a new Schitck so as not to get stale.

    Anyway this is push advertising at its most invading and startling. No better way to crash Location Based Services and have people FREAKING out about stalkers than this. When I find out who Chris Brogan is I am going to show up at restaurants he checks into or tweets from to say hi…many times..no matter what city he is in…and see if he says hello back.

    But it will take some research to see why this person is mentioned in a kick ass blog that covers PR, Marketing, and Social Media. Does he work for Tupperware is that how you know him?

  • ginidietrich

    @KenMueller I’d be lying if I said I didn’t think about all of the things you’ve outlined… I asked myself those very same questions. I even thought about commenting on his blog, but it’d be my first time commenting on his blog and I didn’t want it to be a “you’re totally wrong” comment. Plus, I’ve really been thinking about this since Monday, when I read the post, so I figured I needed to write about it.

    I agree with you that there is HUGE value in listening and monitoring, but do it in ways that are efficient with your time. Not in ways that net you a terrible ROI.

  • ginidietrich

    @KenMueller I’d be lying if I said I didn’t think about all of the things you’ve outlined… I asked myself those very same questions. I even thought about commenting on his blog, but it’d be my first time commenting on his blog and I didn’t want it to be a “you’re totally wrong” comment. Plus, I’ve really been thinking about this since Monday, when I read the post, so I figured I needed to write about it.

    I agree with you that there is HUGE value in listening and monitoring, but do it in ways that are efficient with your time. Not in ways that net you a terrible ROI.

  • HowieSPM

    @Shonali its grasping for straws. Sounds like someone was bored. Was possibly toking the bong and was like ‘OMG DUUUUUUUUDDDDDEEEEE! Seriously check this out…hold on….wait..uhm…OH YEAH! So this would be such a fun way to freak someone out!’

    Seriously coming from past experience there are plenty of ‘light bulbs’ that one gets from the hemp that should never be shared with others nevermind blogged about.

  • HowieSPM

    @Shonali its grasping for straws. Sounds like someone was bored. Was possibly toking the bong and was like ‘OMG DUUUUUUUUDDDDDEEEEE! Seriously check this out…hold on….wait..uhm…OH YEAH! So this would be such a fun way to freak someone out!’

    Seriously coming from past experience there are plenty of ‘light bulbs’ that one gets from the hemp that should never be shared with others nevermind blogged about.

  • ginidietrich

    @Shonali I don’t know if I agree even with this tact. You know the whole “doing less with more” mantra we’ve been living for 15 or more months? Why would we spend time on something that isn’t going to net us much? That being said, I’ll bet it totally works for Chris because, like I said, there are people who would totally freak because he tweeted them and they WOULD buy his book. Plus that’s kind of fun. But even an hour of a business leader’s time (or a published author’s) to try to sell that way is a gigantic waste of time. No matter how fun it might turn out to be.

  • ginidietrich

    @Shonali I don’t know if I agree even with this tact. You know the whole “doing less with more” mantra we’ve been living for 15 or more months? Why would we spend time on something that isn’t going to net us much? That being said, I’ll bet it totally works for Chris because, like I said, there are people who would totally freak because he tweeted them and they WOULD buy his book. Plus that’s kind of fun. But even an hour of a business leader’s time (or a published author’s) to try to sell that way is a gigantic waste of time. No matter how fun it might turn out to be.

  • ginidietrich

    @HowieSPM You’re a smart ass. LOL! Because of his celebrity status, I totally see this working for him. But he’s one in about a zillion. It just won’t work for normal people.

  • ginidietrich

    @HowieSPM You’re a smart ass. LOL! Because of his celebrity status, I totally see this working for him. But he’s one in about a zillion. It just won’t work for normal people.

  • Je suis definitely with you on this one. I can’t believe Chris is suggesting this beause of the amount of money involved.

    Sure, the benefit might be word of mouth – that other people go out and get the book or follow Chris or connect with him as a result – but even so.

    I wouldn’t recommend this kind of advice. However, I would say to a cafe or coffee shop that it’s worth targeting local customers because if you convert them with your tweets (and special offers, e.g. lunch menu of the day. 10% off if you mention this code…) you may get repeat customers.

  • Je suis definitely with you on this one. I can’t believe Chris is suggesting this beause of the amount of money involved.

    Sure, the benefit might be word of mouth – that other people go out and get the book or follow Chris or connect with him as a result – but even so.

    I wouldn’t recommend this kind of advice. However, I would say to a cafe or coffee shop that it’s worth targeting local customers because if you convert them with your tweets (and special offers, e.g. lunch menu of the day. 10% off if you mention this code…) you may get repeat customers.

  • ginidietrich

    @jonbuscall That’s a great point about local and I think that’s what @Shonali recommends too. But I think that is part of your larger marketing strategy, not a “growing ears” strategy. And you’re much more efficient with your time and money with something like this. It worked for Zappos in the early days of Twitter with not a lot of time. Perhaps there is a way to do it efficiently for local businesses.

  • ginidietrich

    @jonbuscall That’s a great point about local and I think that’s what @Shonali recommends too. But I think that is part of your larger marketing strategy, not a “growing ears” strategy. And you’re much more efficient with your time and money with something like this. It worked for Zappos in the early days of Twitter with not a lot of time. Perhaps there is a way to do it efficiently for local businesses.

  • HowieSPM

    @ginidietrich Maybe when you get to be a celeb you have to go into overdrive hoping to keep that status? But seriously. Who is Chris Brogan?

    BTW what I learned when I came to Advertising is ROI is a filthy dirty word. My response is…the CFO determines your budget and without ROI you get no budget. Agencies get revenue from billings. More billings is good. The answer to all marketing is more billings. Never smarter spend.

    Social is the worst because you can measure ROI and companies like Facebook ignore it completely and try to hide the numbers to be like everything else that is mostly unmeasurable.

  • HowieSPM

    @ginidietrich Maybe when you get to be a celeb you have to go into overdrive hoping to keep that status? But seriously. Who is Chris Brogan?

    BTW what I learned when I came to Advertising is ROI is a filthy dirty word. My response is…the CFO determines your budget and without ROI you get no budget. Agencies get revenue from billings. More billings is good. The answer to all marketing is more billings. Never smarter spend.

    Social is the worst because you can measure ROI and companies like Facebook ignore it completely and try to hide the numbers to be like everything else that is mostly unmeasurable.

  • @ginidietrich @jonbuscall @Shonali As far as local businesses are concerned, I actually think it’s better to schedule tweets and broadcast them. I see tourists tweeting for cafés, restaurant tips, etc, here in Stockholm. Scheduled posts would be found in search.

    Of course, direct approaches are better (and more social!) but this is something you could do more sporadically if you’re short of time.

    Bottom line: how much ROI are you going to get from cold-call tweets?

  • @ginidietrich @jonbuscall @Shonali As far as local businesses are concerned, I actually think it’s better to schedule tweets and broadcast them. I see tourists tweeting for cafés, restaurant tips, etc, here in Stockholm. Scheduled posts would be found in search.

    Of course, direct approaches are better (and more social!) but this is something you could do more sporadically if you’re short of time.

    Bottom line: how much ROI are you going to get from cold-call tweets?

  • lisagerber

    @HowieSPM that;s it right there! it’s annoying! even from Chris Brogan. goes against everything on which we counsel our clients. It’s not relationship building, it’s invasive. I’m curious to know what Chris’ real point was in the post.

  • lisagerber

    @HowieSPM that;s it right there! it’s annoying! even from Chris Brogan. goes against everything on which we counsel our clients. It’s not relationship building, it’s invasive. I’m curious to know what Chris’ real point was in the post.

  • @ginidietrich Completely agree on the less is more approach. But it’s possible to reach new/different people by using hashtags smartly, which is the alternative I would have tried – again, emphasis on “tried” – if I were doing something like this.

    It all depends on what he was trying to achieve. Clearly, from the sales and efficiency point of view, he wouldn’t achieve much. I think @jonbuscall ‘s idea of scheduling such tweets is a great one, but what I’d make sure, if I were doing that, was to also acknowledge/respond to them in some way.

    Like I said earlier, I’m not quite sure what exactly the point of this post was. But I’m a “little person” and not a guru. :p

  • @ginidietrich Completely agree on the less is more approach. But it’s possible to reach new/different people by using hashtags smartly, which is the alternative I would have tried – again, emphasis on “tried” – if I were doing something like this.

    It all depends on what he was trying to achieve. Clearly, from the sales and efficiency point of view, he wouldn’t achieve much. I think @jonbuscall ‘s idea of scheduling such tweets is a great one, but what I’d make sure, if I were doing that, was to also acknowledge/respond to them in some way.

    Like I said earlier, I’m not quite sure what exactly the point of this post was. But I’m a “little person” and not a guru. :p

  • @HowieSPM LOL. Maybe it was one of those days he couldn’t come up with something better…

  • @HowieSPM LOL. Maybe it was one of those days he couldn’t come up with something better…

  • HowieSPM

    @lisagerber Welcome to Spin Sucks Lisa! When is your Video Interview with @ginidietrich being posted? Did she warn you about me before or after you took the job?

  • HowieSPM

    @lisagerber Welcome to Spin Sucks Lisa! When is your Video Interview with @ginidietrich being posted? Did she warn you about me before or after you took the job?

  • KenMueller

    @ginidietrich So I guess now we sit back and wait and see how you get categorized…

  • KenMueller

    @ginidietrich So I guess now we sit back and wait and see how you get categorized…

  • markwschaefer

    Believe it or not, I’m going to defend Chris on this one. And it’s not the cold medicine talking.

    First, I think this is a clever guerilla marketing technique. Why not try it? No downside other than a chance you might creep somebody out.

    Second, I don’t think Chirs is doing an economic calculation to determine the cost-benefit analysis of a tweet. Today, books are not about making money. It is a business card that opens new business opportunities. He’s not selling a book, he’s creating a fan. And a movement is about creating one fan at a time. So I say, good job.

    My perspective is that he’s tuning into the heart of marketnig by engaging with people at the point of purchase. Wow!! That’s a pretty awesome strategy isn’t it? Isn’t that the Holy Grail of marketing? Talking with customers while they are in the store?

    I don’t agree with a lot of Chris’s approaches but on this one i have to say it seems like a stroke of genius.

  • markwschaefer

    Believe it or not, I’m going to defend Chris on this one. And it’s not the cold medicine talking.

    First, I think this is a clever guerilla marketing technique. Why not try it? No downside other than a chance you might creep somebody out.

    Second, I don’t think Chirs is doing an economic calculation to determine the cost-benefit analysis of a tweet. Today, books are not about making money. It is a business card that opens new business opportunities. He’s not selling a book, he’s creating a fan. And a movement is about creating one fan at a time. So I say, good job.

    My perspective is that he’s tuning into the heart of marketnig by engaging with people at the point of purchase. Wow!! That’s a pretty awesome strategy isn’t it? Isn’t that the Holy Grail of marketing? Talking with customers while they are in the store?

    I don’t agree with a lot of Chris’s approaches but on this one i have to say it seems like a stroke of genius.

  • CLGraphics

    After reading your post, I read Mr. Brogan’s post. I read the comments on his post, then I read the comments here on your post.

    As a ghost writer I often have clients who are venturing into self publishing ask me for marketing advice… usually because they know about this side of my career as well. If they’re asking me to write on spec, ($ based on sales of finished project) I refer them to a couple of agents and advise them to develop a complete and thorough marketing plan and then invite them to pitch me their project with a complete plan and analysis in hand. If it’s a per page project (up front hard $)… I give them the same advice. Doesn’t matter if they’re a new author or a well known published author, corp exec, journalist, etc…

    Mr. Brogan’s post was a swing and a miss and, as usual, Gini called a proper strike … (odd analogy for me to use since I don’t keep up on baseball)… but any way…

    The only other thing I have to add is…. Gini, your introductory post pic is much better than Chris’ “Dumbo” … well said without saying a word. And of course, he has bigger ears which also helped him fly.

  • CLGraphics

    After reading your post, I read Mr. Brogan’s post. I read the comments on his post, then I read the comments here on your post.

    As a ghost writer I often have clients who are venturing into self publishing ask me for marketing advice… usually because they know about this side of my career as well. If they’re asking me to write on spec, ($ based on sales of finished project) I refer them to a couple of agents and advise them to develop a complete and thorough marketing plan and then invite them to pitch me their project with a complete plan and analysis in hand. If it’s a per page project (up front hard $)… I give them the same advice. Doesn’t matter if they’re a new author or a well known published author, corp exec, journalist, etc…

    Mr. Brogan’s post was a swing and a miss and, as usual, Gini called a proper strike … (odd analogy for me to use since I don’t keep up on baseball)… but any way…

    The only other thing I have to add is…. Gini, your introductory post pic is much better than Chris’ “Dumbo” … well said without saying a word. And of course, he has bigger ears which also helped him fly.

  • FollowtheLawyer

    Great idea. While you’re at it, tweet customers at your dry cleaner to pick up your shirts for you. That, too, would show you’re listening — and are so self-important that you think strangers will follow your self-serving requests.

  • FollowtheLawyer

    Great idea. While you’re at it, tweet customers at your dry cleaner to pick up your shirts for you. That, too, would show you’re listening — and are so self-important that you think strangers will follow your self-serving requests.

  • @markwschaefer I think you’re cool for trying to provide another point of view. But IMHO, the downside that you might creep someone out – specifically because this is about using LBS – is a pretty big one. I would hate it if I were on the receiving end of something like this. And I’m not sure how that creates a fan.

  • @markwschaefer I think you’re cool for trying to provide another point of view. But IMHO, the downside that you might creep someone out – specifically because this is about using LBS – is a pretty big one. I would hate it if I were on the receiving end of something like this. And I’m not sure how that creates a fan.

  • ginidietrich

    @FollowtheLawyer OH! Will you pick up my dry cleaning? I hate doing it.

  • ginidietrich

    @FollowtheLawyer OH! Will you pick up my dry cleaning? I hate doing it.

  • KenMueller

    @lisagerber @HowieSPM @ginidietrich I think this might go to a much larger conversation that needs to happen. The buzzwords of Social Media have always been “community”, “build relationships”, “engage”, “dialogue”, etc. We talk about the Social aspect of social media (rightly so), and all of the biggest books out there, from Brogan,etc, try to hammer these ideas into our head. But in the end, are we just giving those buzzwords lipservice? I don’t see a lot of those things being put into practice, especially by the superstars who write about them.

    I’m trying, hard, as I work primarily with small local businesses and non-profits (and a few larger clients) to really put those things into practice. But then they get approached about software that schedules tweets, they read about things like Klout (of which I’m not a fan at all) and other software “shortcuts and cheats” that try to automate the process. This concerns me…

    In which case, what Chris is saying makes a little bit of sense, because he is reaching out, but again, a) it works for him because people would die to be tweeted at by him, b) he’ll do it for a day or two then stop, c) he doesn’t have to worry about ROI so much because, well, he’s already doing quite well for himself. But for the rest of us, it is not very scalable.

    Just thinking out loud here…

  • KenMueller

    @lisagerber @HowieSPM @ginidietrich I think this might go to a much larger conversation that needs to happen. The buzzwords of Social Media have always been “community”, “build relationships”, “engage”, “dialogue”, etc. We talk about the Social aspect of social media (rightly so), and all of the biggest books out there, from Brogan,etc, try to hammer these ideas into our head. But in the end, are we just giving those buzzwords lipservice? I don’t see a lot of those things being put into practice, especially by the superstars who write about them.

    I’m trying, hard, as I work primarily with small local businesses and non-profits (and a few larger clients) to really put those things into practice. But then they get approached about software that schedules tweets, they read about things like Klout (of which I’m not a fan at all) and other software “shortcuts and cheats” that try to automate the process. This concerns me…

    In which case, what Chris is saying makes a little bit of sense, because he is reaching out, but again, a) it works for him because people would die to be tweeted at by him, b) he’ll do it for a day or two then stop, c) he doesn’t have to worry about ROI so much because, well, he’s already doing quite well for himself. But for the rest of us, it is not very scalable.

    Just thinking out loud here…

  • ginidietrich

    @markwschaefer Mark, I totally agree that it works for Chris Brogan. But if you’re a newly published author who doesn’t yet have a brand or “status,” this would (in @Shonali ‘s words) creep someone out. Isn’t it the worst kind of push marketing? Hey! I see you’re at Barnes & Noble! Buy my book!

    He didn’t say that…what he did say is he tweeted people to ask if his book was at the Barnes & Noble they were visiting and he did it based on whether or not their Twitter bio represented someone who would a) know who he is and b) would buy his book. And, because of his status, he likely had pretty good success with it.

    But let’s put this in perspective of our clients. Would you ever advise them to take an hour or two to do a Twitter search for Home Depot (for instance) and ask them if they would go to the gardening section to see if their new product was on the shelves?

    We both know you would ever give that advice. I see it as the same.

  • ginidietrich

    @markwschaefer Mark, I totally agree that it works for Chris Brogan. But if you’re a newly published author who doesn’t yet have a brand or “status,” this would (in @Shonali ‘s words) creep someone out. Isn’t it the worst kind of push marketing? Hey! I see you’re at Barnes & Noble! Buy my book!

    He didn’t say that…what he did say is he tweeted people to ask if his book was at the Barnes & Noble they were visiting and he did it based on whether or not their Twitter bio represented someone who would a) know who he is and b) would buy his book. And, because of his status, he likely had pretty good success with it.

    But let’s put this in perspective of our clients. Would you ever advise them to take an hour or two to do a Twitter search for Home Depot (for instance) and ask them if they would go to the gardening section to see if their new product was on the shelves?

    We both know you would ever give that advice. I see it as the same.

  • ginidietrich

    @KenMueller I really hope it’s that I did this for the link bait. 🙂

  • ginidietrich

    @KenMueller I really hope it’s that I did this for the link bait. 🙂

  • pacebutlercorp

    All of this does seem a bit odd, but if I got a tweet/text from Seth Godin, I might actually go do it. The status definitely helps. Thinking about the actual scenario, I think most people would be pretty willing to do it. It’s something different, it’s someone different to engage, and for selfish reason, I might get re-tweeted by Chris Brogan. I think as narcissistic as Twitter can be sometimes, I think this would work more times than not. Sure, there’s not a great ROI, but i’m going to have to agree with @markwschaefer . I think this is a good attempt at something different, and engaging a few people you might not have engaged with in the first place. But I do agree with you @ginidietrich that this is definitely not a viable income option. If you look at it as a promo/deal/contest, it comes across much more viable.

  • pacebutlercorp

    All of this does seem a bit odd, but if I got a tweet/text from Seth Godin, I might actually go do it. The status definitely helps. Thinking about the actual scenario, I think most people would be pretty willing to do it. It’s something different, it’s someone different to engage, and for selfish reason, I might get re-tweeted by Chris Brogan. I think as narcissistic as Twitter can be sometimes, I think this would work more times than not. Sure, there’s not a great ROI, but i’m going to have to agree with @markwschaefer . I think this is a good attempt at something different, and engaging a few people you might not have engaged with in the first place. But I do agree with you @ginidietrich that this is definitely not a viable income option. If you look at it as a promo/deal/contest, it comes across much more viable.

  • Love the points, very good critics. The economics don’t add up, unless you can automatize it somehow.
    Looking forward to read what Chris has to say.

  • Love the points, very good critics. The economics don’t add up, unless you can automatize it somehow.
    Looking forward to read what Chris has to say.

  • HowieSPM

    @KenMueller @lisagerber @ginidietrich Ken, Gini and I were discussing how often it is that the biggest names in Social have never built a Twitter or Facebook following for a client or some don’t even have clients. Its really FREAKING HARD! And it isn’t a given for every Business that it will work in a big way.

    And I harp on this often. Social Media is not Media. Its a revolution in interpersonal communications technology. Its not a revolution i Marketing, but currently with todays platforms it can be hijacked and used for Marketing. What if tomorrow a network comes out that focuses on people comminucation but blocks all Brands that we love so much we leave Facebook. So much for Cokes 21mil fan page. Back to Coke Zero. I think these people forget change will happen and I do feel they will struggle to not eb left behind or frozen in time.

  • HowieSPM

    @KenMueller @lisagerber @ginidietrich Ken, Gini and I were discussing how often it is that the biggest names in Social have never built a Twitter or Facebook following for a client or some don’t even have clients. Its really FREAKING HARD! And it isn’t a given for every Business that it will work in a big way.

    And I harp on this often. Social Media is not Media. Its a revolution in interpersonal communications technology. Its not a revolution i Marketing, but currently with todays platforms it can be hijacked and used for Marketing. What if tomorrow a network comes out that focuses on people comminucation but blocks all Brands that we love so much we leave Facebook. So much for Cokes 21mil fan page. Back to Coke Zero. I think these people forget change will happen and I do feel they will struggle to not eb left behind or frozen in time.

  • ginidietrich

    @KenMueller @lisagerber @HowieSPM Howie. You’re not allowed to speak with my colleagues anymore. You’re going to scare them all away (the video is tomorrow)!

    Ken…a few comments on what you just said:
    1. I don’t know if you saw it, but the Economist wrote a story about the image of PR pros (I blogged about it on Monday). What you’re describing here with Klout and automation is exactly what we face in the PR industry and people’s perceptions of us all being snakeoil salesmen. Can you imagine a day when people don’t want to hear anything from us because the Klout and automation didn’t work…when a few minority of us were saying all along HEY! IT DOESN’T MATTER! @Shonali wrote a great blog post earlier this week on influence.

    2. Did you see the Walmart Facebook contest disaster? It’s because people are being advised to try the new tools without strategy and without realizing how they work.

    3. What you said about it working for Chris is exactly right and that’s my point to @markwschaefer . But can imagine advising your non-profits to do this?

    But I do have a question…because you work with local businesses, do you think @jonbuscall ‘s thoughts make sense?

  • ginidietrich

    @KenMueller @lisagerber @HowieSPM Howie. You’re not allowed to speak with my colleagues anymore. You’re going to scare them all away (the video is tomorrow)!

    Ken…a few comments on what you just said:
    1. I don’t know if you saw it, but the Economist wrote a story about the image of PR pros (I blogged about it on Monday). What you’re describing here with Klout and automation is exactly what we face in the PR industry and people’s perceptions of us all being snakeoil salesmen. Can you imagine a day when people don’t want to hear anything from us because the Klout and automation didn’t work…when a few minority of us were saying all along HEY! IT DOESN’T MATTER! @Shonali wrote a great blog post earlier this week on influence.

    2. Did you see the Walmart Facebook contest disaster? It’s because people are being advised to try the new tools without strategy and without realizing how they work.

    3. What you said about it working for Chris is exactly right and that’s my point to @markwschaefer . But can imagine advising your non-profits to do this?

    But I do have a question…because you work with local businesses, do you think @jonbuscall ‘s thoughts make sense?

  • ginidietrich

    @CLGraphics So you don’t think this approach even works for published authors?

  • ginidietrich

    @CLGraphics So you don’t think this approach even works for published authors?

  • HowieSPM

    @pacebutlercorp @markwschaefer @ginidietrich Remember this is from Chris Brogan whom everyone knows of but me. But if you were at Sears getting pliers and your phone alerted you that Sears is watching you in the store and you need a wrench too…..

    Or what if the repair shop across from the donut shop says hey…I know you are in the donut shop we have a special on Brakes.

    Wouldn’t that freak you out and maybe cause you not to say where you are on twitter ever again?

  • HowieSPM

    @pacebutlercorp @markwschaefer @ginidietrich Remember this is from Chris Brogan whom everyone knows of but me. But if you were at Sears getting pliers and your phone alerted you that Sears is watching you in the store and you need a wrench too…..

    Or what if the repair shop across from the donut shop says hey…I know you are in the donut shop we have a special on Brakes.

    Wouldn’t that freak you out and maybe cause you not to say where you are on twitter ever again?

  • ginidietrich

    @pacebutlercorp @markwschaefer And that’s my point. It would totally work for Chris or Seth Godin or dmscott . And, you’re right in that if one of them tweeted me while I was in the bookstore (which they wouldn’t know because I don’t make it public and I buy almost everything on my iPad), I’d probably buy the book. But it doesn’t work for just anyone.

  • ginidietrich

    @pacebutlercorp @markwschaefer And that’s my point. It would totally work for Chris or Seth Godin or dmscott . And, you’re right in that if one of them tweeted me while I was in the bookstore (which they wouldn’t know because I don’t make it public and I buy almost everything on my iPad), I’d probably buy the book. But it doesn’t work for just anyone.

  • ginidietrich

    @johnfalchetto Me too!

  • ginidietrich

    @johnfalchetto Me too!

  • HowieSPM

    @jonbuscall @ginidietrich @Shonali This is my territory we are discussing now. Location Based Services. Its the Holy Grail of Marketing. It can also be the Death of Marketing.

    I use this analogy for Social. Wake. From your bedding to your clothes every brand wants to talk to you via Social. Walk into your kitchen open your Fridge and Freezer and Pantry they all want to talk to you…right now.

    Now lets use Mobile which I related to email. If I drive by the mall and they know I am there and they can reach me every store is going to try to contact me. They will either flood my SMS, my Twitter, Facebook or whatever platform. Do we want that?

    When its a one off its neat. When the floodgates open its oppressive spam. It is why I am anti-Geo Fences and push marketing based on Satellites. Pull marketing (opt in/Call to action) is different. I am saying I am here and I am ready and open to being wooed into action make your case.

  • HowieSPM

    @jonbuscall @ginidietrich @Shonali This is my territory we are discussing now. Location Based Services. Its the Holy Grail of Marketing. It can also be the Death of Marketing.

    I use this analogy for Social. Wake. From your bedding to your clothes every brand wants to talk to you via Social. Walk into your kitchen open your Fridge and Freezer and Pantry they all want to talk to you…right now.

    Now lets use Mobile which I related to email. If I drive by the mall and they know I am there and they can reach me every store is going to try to contact me. They will either flood my SMS, my Twitter, Facebook or whatever platform. Do we want that?

    When its a one off its neat. When the floodgates open its oppressive spam. It is why I am anti-Geo Fences and push marketing based on Satellites. Pull marketing (opt in/Call to action) is different. I am saying I am here and I am ready and open to being wooed into action make your case.

  • I’d personally think it was a bit creepy that an author was cyber stalking me in a bookstore. I guess others might find it flattering. Regardless, I think an author’s time would be better spent tracking down people who have already purchased their stuff… start a conversation with them… and turn them into superfans.

  • I’d personally think it was a bit creepy that an author was cyber stalking me in a bookstore. I guess others might find it flattering. Regardless, I think an author’s time would be better spent tracking down people who have already purchased their stuff… start a conversation with them… and turn them into superfans.

  • meganbeausang

    @KenMueller I really like your honest perspective. I know sometimes in the world of ‘small business’ it is so easy to get caught up in ‘well, that doesn’t make sense to me, but they must be right.’ I have a little trick for myself when i start down that road of thinking. For me (and this is just works for me) – I think of Bethany McLean. Bethany was the young Fortune Magazine reporter who brought down Enron. When she started questioning their financial statements & earnings reports, she faced their ‘celebrity executives’ who told her she was wrong, told her BOSS she was wrong and tried to discredit her for lack of status. Yet she did it – and she was RIGHT. When I think of that, I realize that celebrity status, title, income levels are meaningless up against basic instinct. Trust your instinct!

  • meganbeausang

    @KenMueller I really like your honest perspective. I know sometimes in the world of ‘small business’ it is so easy to get caught up in ‘well, that doesn’t make sense to me, but they must be right.’ I have a little trick for myself when i start down that road of thinking. For me (and this is just works for me) – I think of Bethany McLean. Bethany was the young Fortune Magazine reporter who brought down Enron. When she started questioning their financial statements & earnings reports, she faced their ‘celebrity executives’ who told her she was wrong, told her BOSS she was wrong and tried to discredit her for lack of status. Yet she did it – and she was RIGHT. When I think of that, I realize that celebrity status, title, income levels are meaningless up against basic instinct. Trust your instinct!

  • ginidietrich

    @T60Productions Note to self: Stop cyberstalking Tony.

  • ginidietrich

    @T60Productions Note to self: Stop cyberstalking Tony.

  • MSchechter

    It will be interesting to see if Chris jumps in (he tends to decend like Batman when his name is evoked 🙂 ). I don’t know that I took away the same thing from his article as you did. I didn’t get the sense that he was saying that this was the next hot trend for authors (although I think the shift to talking to someone who’s book you are reading is major). This felt more like a post about a few things, 1) Think big, but don’t forget to test small, 2) Get creative with your one-on-one interactions and 3) Small experiments can spark bigger ideas.

    Don’t get me wrong, I totally agree with you that you need to think 10K over $10, but if that is always the mentality, you risk forgeting the customer and always think about the dollars. I could be dead wrong here, but I think he was just shifting gears and sharing an experiment rather than suggesting a hot new selling technique.

  • MSchechter

    It will be interesting to see if Chris jumps in (he tends to decend like Batman when his name is evoked 🙂 ). I don’t know that I took away the same thing from his article as you did. I didn’t get the sense that he was saying that this was the next hot trend for authors (although I think the shift to talking to someone who’s book you are reading is major). This felt more like a post about a few things, 1) Think big, but don’t forget to test small, 2) Get creative with your one-on-one interactions and 3) Small experiments can spark bigger ideas.

    Don’t get me wrong, I totally agree with you that you need to think 10K over $10, but if that is always the mentality, you risk forgeting the customer and always think about the dollars. I could be dead wrong here, but I think he was just shifting gears and sharing an experiment rather than suggesting a hot new selling technique.

  • I love this post! I don’t know whether to fear you or love you, Gini Dietrich! And Mr. HowieSPM, you are hilarious!

    My take is that Chris got carried away with the tweet game and mechanics and lost sight of the goal: selling his book If I started doing that for my clients (or told them to do it), they would think – and rightly so- that they need to hire a new publicist because I obviously have too much time on my hands and not enough strategy in my plan. Point there: I, nor my clients, have the celebrity status that Mr. Brogan does. It may work for him in getting retweets and new followers, but did it work for him in getting the book sold? He readily admits that it’s a waste of time (hmmm, why then should I do it?) and that it did not sell him a few thousand more books, but that it was fun.

    I can safely say that my clients want me to have less fun and get their books sold!

  • I love this post! I don’t know whether to fear you or love you, Gini Dietrich! And Mr. HowieSPM, you are hilarious!

    My take is that Chris got carried away with the tweet game and mechanics and lost sight of the goal: selling his book If I started doing that for my clients (or told them to do it), they would think – and rightly so- that they need to hire a new publicist because I obviously have too much time on my hands and not enough strategy in my plan. Point there: I, nor my clients, have the celebrity status that Mr. Brogan does. It may work for him in getting retweets and new followers, but did it work for him in getting the book sold? He readily admits that it’s a waste of time (hmmm, why then should I do it?) and that it did not sell him a few thousand more books, but that it was fun.

    I can safely say that my clients want me to have less fun and get their books sold!

  • Targeting people based on their location tweets by a social media specialist who calls for the elimination of push marketing is hypocritical and invasive. Where’s the established relationship before the promotion? Where’s the opt-in for location marketing? The invasiveness of this approach is even worse than the miniscule potential ROI. Yes, as Scott mentioned, there will be people who think “Wow! Chris Brogan is tweeting me”, but is that worth the risk of alienating everyone else?

  • Targeting people based on their location tweets by a social media specialist who calls for the elimination of push marketing is hypocritical and invasive. Where’s the established relationship before the promotion? Where’s the opt-in for location marketing? The invasiveness of this approach is even worse than the miniscule potential ROI. Yes, as Scott mentioned, there will be people who think “Wow! Chris Brogan is tweeting me”, but is that worth the risk of alienating everyone else?

  • CLGraphics

    @ginidietrich Maybe – if your intent as a published author is to use your celebrity status to become annoying, turn off and possibly freak out your readers by monitoring where they are. And, if you have an abundance of time on your hands with absolutely nothing else to do… primarily because you’re out of ideas to start new writing projects and but that really doesn’t matter because through your last several book deals you made enough money to sit around and do nothing but monitor your twitter feed for foursquare updates of where your potential readers are.

    So yeah, maybe it might work for published authors…

  • CLGraphics

    @ginidietrich Maybe – if your intent as a published author is to use your celebrity status to become annoying, turn off and possibly freak out your readers by monitoring where they are. And, if you have an abundance of time on your hands with absolutely nothing else to do… primarily because you’re out of ideas to start new writing projects and but that really doesn’t matter because through your last several book deals you made enough money to sit around and do nothing but monitor your twitter feed for foursquare updates of where your potential readers are.

    So yeah, maybe it might work for published authors…

  • markwschaefer

    @HowieSPM @pacebutlercorp @ginidietrich Getting alerts for deals at a location? Ummm. That’s called Foursquare.

  • markwschaefer

    @HowieSPM @pacebutlercorp @ginidietrich Getting alerts for deals at a location? Ummm. That’s called Foursquare.

  • Pluses and minuses to Chris’s approach.

    PLUSES:
    – Grass roots marketing.
    – Good promotional tool.
    – Connecting the author to the reader.

    MINUSES:
    – Is the time invested worth it?
    – It can be perceived as creepy.
    – It’s “being THAT guy”, something Chris advises as being against in his book.
    – Is it judicial search? I.E., is someone mentioning Chris’s book, or is he invading their downtime?

    Personally, I’d be okay with an author contacting me about their book. As long as I’m a fan of that topic. Otherwise, you’re just spamming me.

  • Pluses and minuses to Chris’s approach.

    PLUSES:
    – Grass roots marketing.
    – Good promotional tool.
    – Connecting the author to the reader.

    MINUSES:
    – Is the time invested worth it?
    – It can be perceived as creepy.
    – It’s “being THAT guy”, something Chris advises as being against in his book.
    – Is it judicial search? I.E., is someone mentioning Chris’s book, or is he invading their downtime?

    Personally, I’d be okay with an author contacting me about their book. As long as I’m a fan of that topic. Otherwise, you’re just spamming me.

  • @markwschaefer with you on this. How is it CYBER STALKING when you TELL people where you are?
    Granted if I did it… police would be called but if a fairly famous author etc did it… why not?

  • @markwschaefer with you on this. How is it CYBER STALKING when you TELL people where you are?
    Granted if I did it… police would be called but if a fairly famous author etc did it… why not?

  • markwschaefer

    @ginidietrich @Shonali Of course i would never give advice that would diminish a brand or a customer experience. Hopefully people are smart enough to naviaget the fine line between being invasive and helpful location-based marketing.

    Using your Home Depot example, let’s say I’m in a store and I check-in on Foursquare. i might be offered a coupon on the spot. Is that invasive? Creepy? I think it’s cool because it save me money when i need it. Now let’s say I tweet that I’m in Home Depot. I get personal tweet back from the store manager offering 10% off because I’m a loyal customer. Cool again. I’d be appreciative and would probably stop by to meet that person to thank them.

    This is one of the distinctive opportunities of social media marketing. It’s not like taking out a newspaper ad and then waiting for something to happen. It’s using this amazing opportunity to identify customer needs on the spot and serve them in a sensitive and meaningful way.

    Of course we can dissect every possible situation and come up with mis-used applications with a significant creep factor. But smart marketers wouldn’t do that. I think the overall theme of listening to your customers and authentically helping them when they need it should not be dismissed.

  • markwschaefer

    @ginidietrich @Shonali Of course i would never give advice that would diminish a brand or a customer experience. Hopefully people are smart enough to naviaget the fine line between being invasive and helpful location-based marketing.

    Using your Home Depot example, let’s say I’m in a store and I check-in on Foursquare. i might be offered a coupon on the spot. Is that invasive? Creepy? I think it’s cool because it save me money when i need it. Now let’s say I tweet that I’m in Home Depot. I get personal tweet back from the store manager offering 10% off because I’m a loyal customer. Cool again. I’d be appreciative and would probably stop by to meet that person to thank them.

    This is one of the distinctive opportunities of social media marketing. It’s not like taking out a newspaper ad and then waiting for something to happen. It’s using this amazing opportunity to identify customer needs on the spot and serve them in a sensitive and meaningful way.

    Of course we can dissect every possible situation and come up with mis-used applications with a significant creep factor. But smart marketers wouldn’t do that. I think the overall theme of listening to your customers and authentically helping them when they need it should not be dismissed.

  • CharlesHGreen

    Chris’s idea is great for Chris. It’s also great for me, as well as for anyone whose economic model depends heavily on speaking, seminars, or requires a reasonable level of brand recognition. It is not, however, a great idea for people who are looking solely to profit from book sales.

    I spent maybe $100,000 to promote my two books. I have gotten back many times that amount in fees from related businesses, and I’m sure that is true in spades for Chris. The people who pay for Chris to come and speak are not the people who follow him on Twitter; they are the companies who notice that masses of people follow Chris on Twitter.

    Hardly any business author makes money on books. Suggesting that it is cost-in efficient to sell books this way is to make the fundamental mistake that old media always makes about new media: “yeah, but how many conversions and my getting from that follower?” That question is only valid if you are trying to make money directly, and only directly.

    The success of Chris’s strategy is evident in this blog post itself; look at the energy you are generating for him! You are helping make Chris famous. The result of that is not that he sold more books, but that he becomes more famous, and he can monetize that fame in many ways unrelated to book sales.

    Net net, his strategy is a genius one if your business model extends beyond book sales.

  • CharlesHGreen

    Chris’s idea is great for Chris. It’s also great for me, as well as for anyone whose economic model depends heavily on speaking, seminars, or requires a reasonable level of brand recognition. It is not, however, a great idea for people who are looking solely to profit from book sales.

    I spent maybe $100,000 to promote my two books. I have gotten back many times that amount in fees from related businesses, and I’m sure that is true in spades for Chris. The people who pay for Chris to come and speak are not the people who follow him on Twitter; they are the companies who notice that masses of people follow Chris on Twitter.

    Hardly any business author makes money on books. Suggesting that it is cost-in efficient to sell books this way is to make the fundamental mistake that old media always makes about new media: “yeah, but how many conversions and my getting from that follower?” That question is only valid if you are trying to make money directly, and only directly.

    The success of Chris’s strategy is evident in this blog post itself; look at the energy you are generating for him! You are helping make Chris famous. The result of that is not that he sold more books, but that he becomes more famous, and he can monetize that fame in many ways unrelated to book sales.

    Net net, his strategy is a genius one if your business model extends beyond book sales.

  • @markwschaefer @ginidietrich @Shonali Mark, that example doesn’t really count, mate. Getting a coupon from a store because you’re in that actual store? Check, makes sense.

    Tweeting that you’re in Home Depot and the store manager offers you a discount? Also relevant, so check, that makes sense too.

    The difference in Chris’s example – or any other author – is that, just because I’m in a book store doesn’t mean I want to buy their book. I may not even be interested in their niche.

    I could just be in for a magazine, or a coffee, or a toilet break. I’m all for creative marketing, but it still needs to be done right, and that means to *your* audience.

  • @markwschaefer @ginidietrich @Shonali Mark, that example doesn’t really count, mate. Getting a coupon from a store because you’re in that actual store? Check, makes sense.

    Tweeting that you’re in Home Depot and the store manager offers you a discount? Also relevant, so check, that makes sense too.

    The difference in Chris’s example – or any other author – is that, just because I’m in a book store doesn’t mean I want to buy their book. I may not even be interested in their niche.

    I could just be in for a magazine, or a coffee, or a toilet break. I’m all for creative marketing, but it still needs to be done right, and that means to *your* audience.

  • @markwschaefer @ginidietrich But there’s a difference here, Mark. If Home Depot, Starbucks or Coach (yes, please, Coach!) offered me a coupon based on a checkin, I would welcome that, because, by checking in, I’m telling them that I’m there. Chris’ example, on the other hand, would feel more to me like the Mexican restaurant that tried to offer me a flyer on New Year’s Day as I was heading to a completely different Mexican restaurant.

    The difference is that in your example, I am a customer at least interested in browsing for a specific kind of product, and therefore more open to being approached. Now, if Chris were to see people tweeting, or “shouting” from FourSquare etc. about how they were trying to find marketing books, or specifically his book, that would be one thing. But for all he knows – all this is, hypothetically speaking, of course – I could have checked in at B&N and be looking for Ernest Hemingway. If I received such a tweet from him, based on my checkin, I would find that extremely unwelcome.

    The original post does not strike me as a good example of listening to your customers. Because they are not Chris’ customers to begin with. Could they become his customers? Possibly. But this doesn’t strike me as a very smart way to do it.

    I want to make it clear that I have never met Chris Brogan and have had limited communication with him (I believe they consist of 2, maybe 3, tweets over the last 3-ish years). Friends of mine whose opinions I respect tell me that he is a very genuine, decent person. So I am not knocking him personally; I would have nothing on which to base such a response.

    OMG @DannyBrown I have taken TOO long to type this response b/c yours just came through. What are the odds!

  • @markwschaefer @ginidietrich But there’s a difference here, Mark. If Home Depot, Starbucks or Coach (yes, please, Coach!) offered me a coupon based on a checkin, I would welcome that, because, by checking in, I’m telling them that I’m there. Chris’ example, on the other hand, would feel more to me like the Mexican restaurant that tried to offer me a flyer on New Year’s Day as I was heading to a completely different Mexican restaurant.

    The difference is that in your example, I am a customer at least interested in browsing for a specific kind of product, and therefore more open to being approached. Now, if Chris were to see people tweeting, or “shouting” from FourSquare etc. about how they were trying to find marketing books, or specifically his book, that would be one thing. But for all he knows – all this is, hypothetically speaking, of course – I could have checked in at B&N and be looking for Ernest Hemingway. If I received such a tweet from him, based on my checkin, I would find that extremely unwelcome.

    The original post does not strike me as a good example of listening to your customers. Because they are not Chris’ customers to begin with. Could they become his customers? Possibly. But this doesn’t strike me as a very smart way to do it.

    I want to make it clear that I have never met Chris Brogan and have had limited communication with him (I believe they consist of 2, maybe 3, tweets over the last 3-ish years). Friends of mine whose opinions I respect tell me that he is a very genuine, decent person. So I am not knocking him personally; I would have nothing on which to base such a response.

    OMG @DannyBrown I have taken TOO long to type this response b/c yours just came through. What are the odds!

  • @DannyBrown LOL, you and I wrote almost the exact same response at the same time!!!

  • @DannyBrown LOL, you and I wrote almost the exact same response at the same time!!!

  • markwschaefer

    @DannyBrown @ginidietrich @Shonali I don’t think we disagree. I acknowledged the creep factor and the importance of interacting with customers in an appropriate and meaningful way.

  • markwschaefer

    @DannyBrown @ginidietrich @Shonali I don’t think we disagree. I acknowledged the creep factor and the importance of interacting with customers in an appropriate and meaningful way.

  • I think this idea is one worth exploring, and perhaps Chris is slightly ahead of time and technology. As a consumer and a eh… casual Foursquare user, I find the “deals nearby” feature very useful, especially if it’s for free food, discounted shopping, etc. However, I have the sole power to take the active role, choosing to interact with the merchant, while they remain passive. “Come see our deal,” they say, and if it’s good, I will.

    But taking an active approach like tweeting shoppers could seem very intrusive even for well-known individuals and brands. I’ll agree with @HowieSPM below, I don’t want George Foreman selling me a Midus Muffler while I’m drinking coffee at Dunkin Donuts across the street even if it’s dragging the ground and causing the neighbors to complain.

    I applaud the innovation in Chris’s approach — clearly it is a very fresh approach, otherwise would this discussion be taking place? But I fear that until there’s a platform that users can opt-in to engage with a merchant, business, author, etc, there may be more backlash than good will established through such engagement.

  • I think this idea is one worth exploring, and perhaps Chris is slightly ahead of time and technology. As a consumer and a eh… casual Foursquare user, I find the “deals nearby” feature very useful, especially if it’s for free food, discounted shopping, etc. However, I have the sole power to take the active role, choosing to interact with the merchant, while they remain passive. “Come see our deal,” they say, and if it’s good, I will.

    But taking an active approach like tweeting shoppers could seem very intrusive even for well-known individuals and brands. I’ll agree with @HowieSPM below, I don’t want George Foreman selling me a Midus Muffler while I’m drinking coffee at Dunkin Donuts across the street even if it’s dragging the ground and causing the neighbors to complain.

    I applaud the innovation in Chris’s approach — clearly it is a very fresh approach, otherwise would this discussion be taking place? But I fear that until there’s a platform that users can opt-in to engage with a merchant, business, author, etc, there may be more backlash than good will established through such engagement.

  • However, thinking through my comment, I guess by Checking-In on Foursquare, that is an implicit opt-in. I know enough to know I don’t have the answer to this situation. Valid points all across the board, and I’m enjoying reading what has been said.

  • However, thinking through my comment, I guess by Checking-In on Foursquare, that is an implicit opt-in. I know enough to know I don’t have the answer to this situation. Valid points all across the board, and I’m enjoying reading what has been said.

  • HowieSPM

    @DannyBrown I think ingrid abboud and I need to learn how to condense our novellas into your bullet points Danny. Hope its in your EBook.

  • HowieSPM

    @DannyBrown I think ingrid abboud and I need to learn how to condense our novellas into your bullet points Danny. Hope its in your EBook.

  • rustyspeidel

    I agree with Mr. Green, it’s a lot like being a musician these days. If you’re promoting yourself, the music you record and put out there and the social marketing efforts you may employ along with web-based initiatives are designed to do two things–expose your creativity to the world and GET FOLKS TO THE SHOWS. We are willing to sell CDs and downloads for dirt because we’d rather see you at the venue paying $20 to get in and buying a $25 t-shirt and hat combo.

    That said, it’s not a very compelling request, since it only really benefits him and depends on the goodwill of his fans to work. Now, if Chris had said “I see you’re at Barnes and Noble. Go find my book, take a picture of yourself holding it. Now, take that up to the front counter and show it to the clerk and they’ll give you 15% off the price.” Now that is something I might do. That would be a deal worth doing with Groupon to create a digital coupon. That would be a viral, social, and technological win for everyone, author and reader.

  • rustyspeidel

    I agree with Mr. Green, it’s a lot like being a musician these days. If you’re promoting yourself, the music you record and put out there and the social marketing efforts you may employ along with web-based initiatives are designed to do two things–expose your creativity to the world and GET FOLKS TO THE SHOWS. We are willing to sell CDs and downloads for dirt because we’d rather see you at the venue paying $20 to get in and buying a $25 t-shirt and hat combo.

    That said, it’s not a very compelling request, since it only really benefits him and depends on the goodwill of his fans to work. Now, if Chris had said “I see you’re at Barnes and Noble. Go find my book, take a picture of yourself holding it. Now, take that up to the front counter and show it to the clerk and they’ll give you 15% off the price.” Now that is something I might do. That would be a deal worth doing with Groupon to create a digital coupon. That would be a viral, social, and technological win for everyone, author and reader.

  • rustyspeidel

    I have also noticed that you can never overestimate the power of narcissism where social tools are concerned. Some people just choose to connect with others.

  • rustyspeidel

    I have also noticed that you can never overestimate the power of narcissism where social tools are concerned. Some people just choose to connect with others.

  • CharlesHGreen

    @rustyspeidel Ha ha, True Dat!

  • CharlesHGreen

    @rustyspeidel Ha ha, True Dat!

  • @HowieSPM ingrid abboud Funnily enough…. 😉

  • @HowieSPM ingrid abboud Funnily enough…. 😉

  • RichBurghgraef

    Last Christmas, my dad was walking out of a store where he had just bought my mom a Christmas present when his phone rang. It was my mom asking him what he was doing at Yankee Candle Company.

    He looked around, wondering if she was also shopping there; however she happened to be checking their credit card online from her office. The purchase had just posted so she called him to give him a hard time.

    Now they joke about this, but it made my dad feel strange that his own wife knew what he was purchasing (especially since he was buying a present for her and wanted it to be a surprise,) so I wonder what people would think if a stranger (celebrity or not) was closely following them.

  • RichBurghgraef

    Last Christmas, my dad was walking out of a store where he had just bought my mom a Christmas present when his phone rang. It was my mom asking him what he was doing at Yankee Candle Company.

    He looked around, wondering if she was also shopping there; however she happened to be checking their credit card online from her office. The purchase had just posted so she called him to give him a hard time.

    Now they joke about this, but it made my dad feel strange that his own wife knew what he was purchasing (especially since he was buying a present for her and wanted it to be a surprise,) so I wonder what people would think if a stranger (celebrity or not) was closely following them.

  • @JamesDBurrell2 When email marketers presumed that customers sharing their email addresses were an implicit opt-in, they were proven wrong. The same is true of Foursquare. This marketing tactic is begging the FTC to get involved. And, when they do, social media will be forever changed.

  • @JamesDBurrell2 When email marketers presumed that customers sharing their email addresses were an implicit opt-in, they were proven wrong. The same is true of Foursquare. This marketing tactic is begging the FTC to get involved. And, when they do, social media will be forever changed.

  • Ok, sorry I keep replying to myself. Take note, Jamey, get your sh”# together before posting your comment, and just write a novel like ingrid abboud . That said, I took the time to read through all the comments, and without knowing Chris’ blog & content that well other than the fact he is mentioned A… Lot, would it be too much to assume he was simply trying something new and using his blog as medium to get a reaction? Heck, the first time anyone ever ‘liked’ a picture of me on Facebook, I was quite disturbed, but time passes and we recognize that what we thought was intrusive really wasn’t all that much.

    Like I said above,I don’t know much (shh. I’m from Georgia, I barely know the alphabet) but someone has to put the first foot forward. Good strategy or not, I respect Chris for trying something new.

    And, without further ado, I’m done waffling on the issue.

  • Ok, sorry I keep replying to myself. Take note, Jamey, get your sh”# together before posting your comment, and just write a novel like ingrid abboud . That said, I took the time to read through all the comments, and without knowing Chris’ blog & content that well other than the fact he is mentioned A… Lot, would it be too much to assume he was simply trying something new and using his blog as medium to get a reaction? Heck, the first time anyone ever ‘liked’ a picture of me on Facebook, I was quite disturbed, but time passes and we recognize that what we thought was intrusive really wasn’t all that much.

    Like I said above,I don’t know much (shh. I’m from Georgia, I barely know the alphabet) but someone has to put the first foot forward. Good strategy or not, I respect Chris for trying something new.

    And, without further ado, I’m done waffling on the issue.

  • HAHAHA yes- what’s in it for me?
    What if they just took the pic and Chris offered to send them something for it?

  • HAHAHA yes- what’s in it for me?
    What if they just took the pic and Chris offered to send them something for it?

  • @DannyBrown @HowieSPM ingrid abboud I’m here – you called?

  • @DannyBrown @HowieSPM ingrid abboud I’m here – you called?

  • FollowtheLawyer

    @markwschaefer How is creeping somebody out not a serious downside?

    This conversation thread alone demonstrates that 1) it’s causing some current Brogan fans to reevaluate their opinion of him and 2) people unfamiliar with his work now have a negative first-impression of his brand.

  • FollowtheLawyer

    @markwschaefer How is creeping somebody out not a serious downside?

    This conversation thread alone demonstrates that 1) it’s causing some current Brogan fans to reevaluate their opinion of him and 2) people unfamiliar with his work now have a negative first-impression of his brand.

  • @HowieSPM @DannyBrown ingrid abboud @JamesDBurrell2 I do the bullet thing too – but ehhhh…just for my clients :). You lucky bloggin’ folks get chapters lol!

  • @HowieSPM @DannyBrown ingrid abboud @JamesDBurrell2 I do the bullet thing too – but ehhhh…just for my clients :). You lucky bloggin’ folks get chapters lol!

  • @ginidietrich Text Alert: Hey you… in the Food Section. Move on over to the Business Section and check out my book!

  • @ginidietrich Text Alert: Hey you… in the Food Section. Move on over to the Business Section and check out my book!

  • FollowtheLawyer

    @ginidietrich Sure. While I’m at it, how do you take your coffee? Any new books or yours I need to buy?

    I’m clearly in the minority, but I find this case particularly galling for its sheer arrogance:

    1) The underlying assumption that everyone using social media has heard of Chris Brogan and would welcome his creepy intrusion.
    2) The demonstration that he’s not interested in the ideas and information you share in social media, just your physical proximity to one of his products.

    Even if it was intended to intentionally provoke and burnish his envelope-pushing reputation, this episode strikes me as remarkably tone-deaf.

  • FollowtheLawyer

    @ginidietrich Sure. While I’m at it, how do you take your coffee? Any new books or yours I need to buy?

    I’m clearly in the minority, but I find this case particularly galling for its sheer arrogance:

    1) The underlying assumption that everyone using social media has heard of Chris Brogan and would welcome his creepy intrusion.
    2) The demonstration that he’s not interested in the ideas and information you share in social media, just your physical proximity to one of his products.

    Even if it was intended to intentionally provoke and burnish his envelope-pushing reputation, this episode strikes me as remarkably tone-deaf.

  • techguerilla

    @DannyBrown My only issue with this post (since I don’t particularly think Chris’ idea is a great use of time) is that it’s sloppy in its use of math/logic. You don’t apply some generic cold call conversion percentage to a specific engagement methodology, much less one that holds none of the same attributes.

    Cheers.

    Matt Ridings – @techguerilla

  • techguerilla

    @DannyBrown My only issue with this post (since I don’t particularly think Chris’ idea is a great use of time) is that it’s sloppy in its use of math/logic. You don’t apply some generic cold call conversion percentage to a specific engagement methodology, much less one that holds none of the same attributes.

    Cheers.

    Matt Ridings – @techguerilla

  • bdorman264

    What is right, what is wrong, what is the most effective and efficient use of my limited time? Social networking can be all consuming if you let it. For me, I know I need to determine what I want out of it and what does it look like to be worthwhile? And back to credibility, at some point you are going to ‘pimp’ yourself but what does that look like and is it sincere and genuine?

    Still being a novice (twitter), it’s interesting to find out what I like and don’t like about social networking; who is really worth following and who is too commercial, obvious in what they are trying to do. Which is not necessarily a bad thing, but maybe not what I’m looking for in my SM experience. Finally, the SM snobs who call out rookies like me because maybe I used #hashtags inappropriately, or @, or FF in the wrong way, or ‘no’ replies regardless of what you have to say. Good thing there is a great deal of anonymity w/ SM…..:). It really makes me appreciate (and follow) the people who are gracious and helpful.

    I think I got off track, but would concur with Gini’s take, as it would appear not the most effecient way to use your creative time but everyone it entitled to an opinion. Everything changes so fast sometimes you want to at least get comfortable for a day or two, huh?

  • bdorman264

    What is right, what is wrong, what is the most effective and efficient use of my limited time? Social networking can be all consuming if you let it. For me, I know I need to determine what I want out of it and what does it look like to be worthwhile? And back to credibility, at some point you are going to ‘pimp’ yourself but what does that look like and is it sincere and genuine?

    Still being a novice (twitter), it’s interesting to find out what I like and don’t like about social networking; who is really worth following and who is too commercial, obvious in what they are trying to do. Which is not necessarily a bad thing, but maybe not what I’m looking for in my SM experience. Finally, the SM snobs who call out rookies like me because maybe I used #hashtags inappropriately, or @, or FF in the wrong way, or ‘no’ replies regardless of what you have to say. Good thing there is a great deal of anonymity w/ SM…..:). It really makes me appreciate (and follow) the people who are gracious and helpful.

    I think I got off track, but would concur with Gini’s take, as it would appear not the most effecient way to use your creative time but everyone it entitled to an opinion. Everything changes so fast sometimes you want to at least get comfortable for a day or two, huh?

  • DenVan

    Pretty simple math really:
    SM Contact – Real World Context = SPAM

  • DenVan

    Pretty simple math really:
    SM Contact – Real World Context = SPAM

  • KenMueller

    @DenVan oooh. I think that’s a pretty good summation.

  • KenMueller

    @DenVan oooh. I think that’s a pretty good summation.

  • Pingback: Chris Brogan Is Misunderstood()

  • @DenVan Excellent formula!

  • @DenVan Excellent formula!

  • @bdorman264 You bring up a good point about being a novice. The new people joining Twitter in droves aren’t aware of the tools and tactics. Calling people out for not knowing how to do things diminishes the sense of community and belonging. It’s much better to offer assistance.

    If someone is new to the social media world and taking Foursquare for a trial spin receives a marketing message noting their location, I guarantee that the creepy factor just got multiplied.

  • @bdorman264 You bring up a good point about being a novice. The new people joining Twitter in droves aren’t aware of the tools and tactics. Calling people out for not knowing how to do things diminishes the sense of community and belonging. It’s much better to offer assistance.

    If someone is new to the social media world and taking Foursquare for a trial spin receives a marketing message noting their location, I guarantee that the creepy factor just got multiplied.

  • KenMueller

    @ginidietrich @lisagerber @HowieSPM @Shonali @markwschaefer @jonbuscall
    I’m just majorly concerned about anything that takes the Social out of social media. I wrote about this rather recently (and bear with me, one hat I wear is that of a media theorist and historian):
    Most media that we use for advertising was created for the purpose of two primary things: to inform and entertain. If you go back to the earliest days of radio (my major area of study), television, and print, that was the purpose. Then Marketing came along as a way of monetizing. When marketing comes on board, there is always an initial backlash (in the 1920s there were attempts to legislate a ban on advertising on radio), followed by some sort of acceptance (often because we see it as inevtiable and we’re willing to live with it.

    Social Media is different. While we are informed and entertained by it, we go there for the purpose of…wait for it….being social! To connect with friends. When I joined Facebook, it was first to connect with my current friends. I then reconnected with old HS or college friends, etc. Now marketing has come along and wants a piece of the pie because, to paraphrase the Bible, “wherever two or more gather…marketers are there with you!”

    The marketers that will see the most long-term success are the ones that recognize that they are guests in this social realm. We don’t knock the door down and barge in, we need to be invited in.

    For social media to remain truly social, we need to approach it from a social perspective, not a media perspective, i.e. Facebook, in its purest form, exists for people, not for Marketers. Now obviously Facebook has embraced marketers because of the need to monetize. But the wrong approach will backfire.

    Now, after that longwinded novel, as to your question re: @jonbuscall , I think I’d still disagree with his approach. Scheduling tweets and merely broadcasting over Twitter can be effective for some, but that’s one of the major things I advise my clients against. there’s no relationship building, and no engagement. If you broadcast some prescheduled tweet, and i respond to it, and I get no response from you…I’m outta there.

  • KenMueller

    @ginidietrich @lisagerber @HowieSPM @Shonali @markwschaefer @jonbuscall
    I’m just majorly concerned about anything that takes the Social out of social media. I wrote about this rather recently (and bear with me, one hat I wear is that of a media theorist and historian):
    Most media that we use for advertising was created for the purpose of two primary things: to inform and entertain. If you go back to the earliest days of radio (my major area of study), television, and print, that was the purpose. Then Marketing came along as a way of monetizing. When marketing comes on board, there is always an initial backlash (in the 1920s there were attempts to legislate a ban on advertising on radio), followed by some sort of acceptance (often because we see it as inevtiable and we’re willing to live with it.

    Social Media is different. While we are informed and entertained by it, we go there for the purpose of…wait for it….being social! To connect with friends. When I joined Facebook, it was first to connect with my current friends. I then reconnected with old HS or college friends, etc. Now marketing has come along and wants a piece of the pie because, to paraphrase the Bible, “wherever two or more gather…marketers are there with you!”

    The marketers that will see the most long-term success are the ones that recognize that they are guests in this social realm. We don’t knock the door down and barge in, we need to be invited in.

    For social media to remain truly social, we need to approach it from a social perspective, not a media perspective, i.e. Facebook, in its purest form, exists for people, not for Marketers. Now obviously Facebook has embraced marketers because of the need to monetize. But the wrong approach will backfire.

    Now, after that longwinded novel, as to your question re: @jonbuscall , I think I’d still disagree with his approach. Scheduling tweets and merely broadcasting over Twitter can be effective for some, but that’s one of the major things I advise my clients against. there’s no relationship building, and no engagement. If you broadcast some prescheduled tweet, and i respond to it, and I get no response from you…I’m outta there.

  • meursault

    I read Brogan’s post and think the strategy is more about getting the person the author contacts to seem a little more excited when they tell their friends about the book, and have an interesting story to go along with it – ideally interesting enough to compel others to buy the book or attend a seminar.

    That said I could see it coming off as desperate, almost like something Troy McClure, Lionel Hutz, or Gill from “The Simpsons” might try.

  • meursault

    I read Brogan’s post and think the strategy is more about getting the person the author contacts to seem a little more excited when they tell their friends about the book, and have an interesting story to go along with it – ideally interesting enough to compel others to buy the book or attend a seminar.

    That said I could see it coming off as desperate, almost like something Troy McClure, Lionel Hutz, or Gill from “The Simpsons” might try.

  • meganbeausang

    @techguerilla@DannyBrown
    Hmmmm…I respectfully disagree. I think that is a very slippery slope to mask real metrics by semantics such as “specific engagement methodology” when it is simply 21st century “Cold Calling.” And I think the point is not that it’s not a nice way to reach out to people – but if you are a business owner or an author, or anyone who makes more than $10/hr…this is NOT an efficient use of your time.

  • meganbeausang

    @techguerilla@DannyBrown
    Hmmmm…I respectfully disagree. I think that is a very slippery slope to mask real metrics by semantics such as “specific engagement methodology” when it is simply 21st century “Cold Calling.” And I think the point is not that it’s not a nice way to reach out to people – but if you are a business owner or an author, or anyone who makes more than $10/hr…this is NOT an efficient use of your time.

  • HowieSPM

    @meganbeausang @techguerilla @DannyBrown I LOVE When Finance is in the house! Normally I am the lone dove or hawk or whatever animal you would assign to Finance!

  • HowieSPM

    @meganbeausang @techguerilla @DannyBrown I LOVE When Finance is in the house! Normally I am the lone dove or hawk or whatever animal you would assign to Finance!

  • HowieSPM

    @markwschaefer @pacebutlercorp @ginidietrich Ha Mark! Its the fact you have my middle name as your first that you just made me LOL!

  • HowieSPM

    @markwschaefer @pacebutlercorp @ginidietrich Ha Mark! Its the fact you have my middle name as your first that you just made me LOL!

  • ginidietrich

    @MSchechter Oh I totally agree that if you always think about the money, you’ll forget about the customer. Otherwise, why the hell would I spend so much time on Twitter? And that was my point, I could probably tweet someone I kinda knew and ask them if my book was in the airport bookstore because I’m on Twitter all the time. And Chris has enough status in the marketing world that he DEFINITELY can do it. My issue is that a gazillion people read his blog and take his word for gospel. So soon we’ll have someone searching for Whole Foods, find @T60Productions , and ask him to stop by the produce section to buy some tomatoes because they’re about to go bad.

    Heck. Let’s look at this from your perspective. Would YOU go to Twitter search and look for people checking in at a jewelry store (assuming that’s where you sell) and ask them to check out Honora?!?

  • ginidietrich

    @MSchechter Oh I totally agree that if you always think about the money, you’ll forget about the customer. Otherwise, why the hell would I spend so much time on Twitter? And that was my point, I could probably tweet someone I kinda knew and ask them if my book was in the airport bookstore because I’m on Twitter all the time. And Chris has enough status in the marketing world that he DEFINITELY can do it. My issue is that a gazillion people read his blog and take his word for gospel. So soon we’ll have someone searching for Whole Foods, find @T60Productions , and ask him to stop by the produce section to buy some tomatoes because they’re about to go bad.

    Heck. Let’s look at this from your perspective. Would YOU go to Twitter search and look for people checking in at a jewelry store (assuming that’s where you sell) and ask them to check out Honora?!?

  • ginidietrich

    @FollowtheLawyer Oh. You’re not in the minority.

  • ginidietrich

    @FollowtheLawyer Oh. You’re not in the minority.

  • ginidietrich

    @CLGraphics Maybe it might.

  • ginidietrich

    @CLGraphics Maybe it might.

  • sydcon_mktg

    @RichBurghgraef As I was reading this post & wading through the replies I thought in head exactly what you said

    “Now they joke about this, but it made my dad feel strange that his own wife knew what he was purchasing (especially since he was buying a present for her and wanted it to be a surprise,) so I wonder what people would think if a stranger (celebrity or not) was closely following them.”

    I would not like it one bit! I think it ties in with privacy arguments not to mention safety concerns!

  • sydcon_mktg

    @RichBurghgraef As I was reading this post & wading through the replies I thought in head exactly what you said

    “Now they joke about this, but it made my dad feel strange that his own wife knew what he was purchasing (especially since he was buying a present for her and wanted it to be a surprise,) so I wonder what people would think if a stranger (celebrity or not) was closely following them.”

    I would not like it one bit! I think it ties in with privacy arguments not to mention safety concerns!

  • ginidietrich

    @markwschaefer @DannyBrown @Shonali What they said. And now I’m happy because, in the end, Mark agrees with me!! 🙂

    Boy this is fun. Three of the people I respect most (well, two and a half because Danny doesn’t really count as a whole) on one comment session!

  • ginidietrich

    @markwschaefer @DannyBrown @Shonali What they said. And now I’m happy because, in the end, Mark agrees with me!! 🙂

    Boy this is fun. Three of the people I respect most (well, two and a half because Danny doesn’t really count as a whole) on one comment session!

  • @KenMueller @ginidietrich @lisagerber @HowieSPM @Shonali @markwschaefer Hmm. I think the point I was making was broadcast SOME of the time, and connect the other. If you’re a café or whatever there’s just not enough time to solely concentrate on personal connections. Besides, if someone responds to a “10% of our lunch of the day” you’ve started a personal connection anyway.

  • @KenMueller @ginidietrich @lisagerber @HowieSPM @Shonali @markwschaefer Hmm. I think the point I was making was broadcast SOME of the time, and connect the other. If you’re a café or whatever there’s just not enough time to solely concentrate on personal connections. Besides, if someone responds to a “10% of our lunch of the day” you’ve started a personal connection anyway.

  • nateriggs

    Ok. So The comments are all really interesting. I agree with parts of Chris’s approach, but I think the application is wrong. BIG name authors tweeting patrons at Barns and Nobel is in the worst case a bit spammy, and at best a waste of goo time that could be applied somewhere else (as Gini points out.)

    That said, there is application in the approach at a company level. For instance, I’ve been using this little dashboard called Tap11.com to track the real time volume of conversation around keywords and phrases related to “ER” or Emergency Room” or “urgent care”. Last week, there were 3489 mentions of the word “urgent care” on Twitter nationally. Here’s an example:

    (at)DizzieBenZ Lol thanks, i think if i don’t feel better by tomorrow i’ll go to urgent care. Watch them say, your tonsils need to come out lol (Jan 06 10:30AM via web)

    You can see that the tweet is not a checkin per say, but it is related to a potential physical location. Let’s say you are a company that offers urgent care facilities and services. If you’re monitoring for these types of tweets, one way you might respond would be with a link to a google map to one of your locations. The volume of conversation is high enough and the average spend of a consumer visiting an urgent care is potentially high enough to drive significant foot traffic through the door and make monitoring and participating worth the investment.

    But authors selling books, meh, methinks not so much…

  • nateriggs

    Ok. So The comments are all really interesting. I agree with parts of Chris’s approach, but I think the application is wrong. BIG name authors tweeting patrons at Barns and Nobel is in the worst case a bit spammy, and at best a waste of goo time that could be applied somewhere else (as Gini points out.)

    That said, there is application in the approach at a company level. For instance, I’ve been using this little dashboard called Tap11.com to track the real time volume of conversation around keywords and phrases related to “ER” or Emergency Room” or “urgent care”. Last week, there were 3489 mentions of the word “urgent care” on Twitter nationally. Here’s an example:

    (at)DizzieBenZ Lol thanks, i think if i don’t feel better by tomorrow i’ll go to urgent care. Watch them say, your tonsils need to come out lol (Jan 06 10:30AM via web)

    You can see that the tweet is not a checkin per say, but it is related to a potential physical location. Let’s say you are a company that offers urgent care facilities and services. If you’re monitoring for these types of tweets, one way you might respond would be with a link to a google map to one of your locations. The volume of conversation is high enough and the average spend of a consumer visiting an urgent care is potentially high enough to drive significant foot traffic through the door and make monitoring and participating worth the investment.

    But authors selling books, meh, methinks not so much…

  • meganbeausang

    @HowieSPM @techguerilla @DannyBrown WHOOT! I like to refer myself to ‘the dork who likes excel” but I kinda like the “Dove” better…

  • meganbeausang

    @HowieSPM @techguerilla @DannyBrown WHOOT! I like to refer myself to ‘the dork who likes excel” but I kinda like the “Dove” better…

  • sarah_wallace

    Why are you making this a one-to-one equation? If Chris engages with one person who gets exctied then that person may tweet about their experience to say their 1,000 folowers and then update their status to their 300 friends on Facebook. And, let’s say of their 300 friends on Facebook, 50 people “like” this. Now, with the average person on Facebook having 120 friends, this extends the outreach to potentially 6,000 more people. And then there’s the real life spreading of the word. This all changes your conversion of $10 to a possible $73,000.

  • sarah_wallace

    Why are you making this a one-to-one equation? If Chris engages with one person who gets exctied then that person may tweet about their experience to say their 1,000 folowers and then update their status to their 300 friends on Facebook. And, let’s say of their 300 friends on Facebook, 50 people “like” this. Now, with the average person on Facebook having 120 friends, this extends the outreach to potentially 6,000 more people. And then there’s the real life spreading of the word. This all changes your conversion of $10 to a possible $73,000.

  • jelenawoehr

    Here’s my issue with this approach: If the person isn’t already a fan (and if they are, they’ll buy the book anyway) they’re going to wonder why a “big name” is desperate enough to be cruising 4square to pitch books one sale at a time. They’re not going to think “ooh, clever guerrilla marketing!” unless they’re already tuned into conversation on marketing–in which case, again, they probably already are aware of the book.

    The average person is just going to be confused unless the Tweeter is someone whose particular persona is such that it’s a funny, occasional occurrence. Adam Savage, for example, could totally pull this off. I still talk about the time Asam replied to me on Twitter!

    Better to use the value of gratitude combined with “bigger ears.” Thank people who buy and mention your book. Engage with people who criticize it, politely and opening by thanking them for the feedback. My baptism in fire as a marketer was a three month stint as a door to door fundraiser. If you don’t think the words “thank you” get people’s wallets out of their pockets, you’ve never canvassed!

  • jelenawoehr

    Here’s my issue with this approach: If the person isn’t already a fan (and if they are, they’ll buy the book anyway) they’re going to wonder why a “big name” is desperate enough to be cruising 4square to pitch books one sale at a time. They’re not going to think “ooh, clever guerrilla marketing!” unless they’re already tuned into conversation on marketing–in which case, again, they probably already are aware of the book.

    The average person is just going to be confused unless the Tweeter is someone whose particular persona is such that it’s a funny, occasional occurrence. Adam Savage, for example, could totally pull this off. I still talk about the time Asam replied to me on Twitter!

    Better to use the value of gratitude combined with “bigger ears.” Thank people who buy and mention your book. Engage with people who criticize it, politely and opening by thanking them for the feedback. My baptism in fire as a marketer was a three month stint as a door to door fundraiser. If you don’t think the words “thank you” get people’s wallets out of their pockets, you’ve never canvassed!

  • jelenawoehr

    Adam, even. Not Asam.

  • jelenawoehr

    Adam, even. Not Asam.

  • MSchechter

    @ginidietrich @T60Productions Anyone who takes any one word as gospel (with the marked exception of actual gospel if that is your thing), deserves to have me come to their house and punch them in the face 🙂 Let’s put it this way, I hope any author who took that advice and ran with it isn’t writing about Social Media…

    As for me, would I do it, probably not that directly… although if someone who followed the HonoraPearls account checked into one of our partners, I may be tempted. Especially if it is somene who we’ve talked to in the past. Would I go the direct, “Hey, while your there buy my crap” route, no. I’d probably ask something “charming” like, “Hope you saw something shiny at xyz jeweler? Did you see any pretty pearls while you were there :)”.
    To some extent, I occasionally do this when I reach out to someone who is talking about watching QVC while we are on. Then again, I have the liberty of knowing they are actually watching us.

  • MSchechter

    @ginidietrich @T60Productions Anyone who takes any one word as gospel (with the marked exception of actual gospel if that is your thing), deserves to have me come to their house and punch them in the face 🙂 Let’s put it this way, I hope any author who took that advice and ran with it isn’t writing about Social Media…

    As for me, would I do it, probably not that directly… although if someone who followed the HonoraPearls account checked into one of our partners, I may be tempted. Especially if it is somene who we’ve talked to in the past. Would I go the direct, “Hey, while your there buy my crap” route, no. I’d probably ask something “charming” like, “Hope you saw something shiny at xyz jeweler? Did you see any pretty pearls while you were there :)”.
    To some extent, I occasionally do this when I reach out to someone who is talking about watching QVC while we are on. Then again, I have the liberty of knowing they are actually watching us.

  • sydcon_mktg

    I agree, I see this tactic as a big waste of time! I also see it as spammy & creepy! If I was contacted via twitter for checking in at a bookstore (which, by the way I dont do public checkins) to locate a book by a author I have never tweeted about or contacted, I would be really put-off. And, I would begin to think the person egotistical and presumptuous!

    Now, if I was contacted by someone I routinely mention via twitter or checkins with a special offer, I would find it more appropriate. By routinely mentioning said person I am “opting in” so to speak, but I wouldn’t want it to be a repeat occurrence either.

  • sydcon_mktg

    I agree, I see this tactic as a big waste of time! I also see it as spammy & creepy! If I was contacted via twitter for checking in at a bookstore (which, by the way I dont do public checkins) to locate a book by a author I have never tweeted about or contacted, I would be really put-off. And, I would begin to think the person egotistical and presumptuous!

    Now, if I was contacted by someone I routinely mention via twitter or checkins with a special offer, I would find it more appropriate. By routinely mentioning said person I am “opting in” so to speak, but I wouldn’t want it to be a repeat occurrence either.

  • KenMueller

    @jonbuscall @ginidietrich @lisagerber @HowieSPM @Shonali @markwschaefer understood, and I would agree with that tactic, as long as there is real connecting going on at other times. I definitely see a big difference between how well it works for local businesses that only tweet and don’t engage, and those who actually build relationships.

  • KenMueller

    @jonbuscall @ginidietrich @lisagerber @HowieSPM @Shonali @markwschaefer understood, and I would agree with that tactic, as long as there is real connecting going on at other times. I definitely see a big difference between how well it works for local businesses that only tweet and don’t engage, and those who actually build relationships.

  • HowieSPM

    @sydcon_mktg did you know the Black Hawks use this tactic? How do you think they score goals. They tweet to the opposing goalie chances to win ice skating trips because they saw the goalie checked into the arena on FourSquare.

  • HowieSPM

    @sydcon_mktg did you know the Black Hawks use this tactic? How do you think they score goals. They tweet to the opposing goalie chances to win ice skating trips because they saw the goalie checked into the arena on FourSquare.

  • HowieSPM

    @faybiz On behalf of Chris Brogan the first person to take a photo of his book in Barnes and Noble and Tweets it wins an all inclusive trip for two to Switzerland for Skiing Airfare included. Tweet to Chris Brogan for contest details.

  • HowieSPM

    @faybiz On behalf of Chris Brogan the first person to take a photo of his book in Barnes and Noble and Tweets it wins an all inclusive trip for two to Switzerland for Skiing Airfare included. Tweet to Chris Brogan for contest details.

  • sydcon_mktg

    @HowieSPM Actually they tweet at the goalie that they love his white skates & tell him where to find the tissue boxes to dry their tears when Hossa or Sharp snipe right over their heads!

    They have also been known to tweet the lyrics of Chelsea Dagger to increase the odds of nightmares….just ask Roberto Luongo!

    By the way….you will do anything for Livfrye points wont you?

  • sydcon_mktg

    @HowieSPM Actually they tweet at the goalie that they love his white skates & tell him where to find the tissue boxes to dry their tears when Hossa or Sharp snipe right over their heads!

    They have also been known to tweet the lyrics of Chelsea Dagger to increase the odds of nightmares….just ask Roberto Luongo!

    By the way….you will do anything for Livfrye points wont you?

  • @HowieSPM what are the odds that brogan woulsn’t react postively to something like that- not that extreme of course- but those are the standouts and it would be ZERO skin off any one to do something similar

  • @HowieSPM what are the odds that brogan woulsn’t react postively to something like that- not that extreme of course- but those are the standouts and it would be ZERO skin off any one to do something similar

  • FollowtheLawyer

    Though the word “creepy” does not appear in Gini’s original post, thanks to this discussion thread a search for “Chris Brogan creepy” is, as of this writing, the #5 result on Google and #7 result on Bing.

    If that’s the type of buzz he was going for with that post, WOOT!

  • FollowtheLawyer

    Though the word “creepy” does not appear in Gini’s original post, thanks to this discussion thread a search for “Chris Brogan creepy” is, as of this writing, the #5 result on Google and #7 result on Bing.

    If that’s the type of buzz he was going for with that post, WOOT!

  • sydcon_mktg

    @FollowtheLawyer Something tells me that will make him rethink this strategy!

  • sydcon_mktg

    @FollowtheLawyer Something tells me that will make him rethink this strategy!

  • 3HatsComm

    @sarah_wallace Agree it’s not 1 to 1, cross-over and extended reach is very important. And yet.. 16% of my friends and followers aren’t apt to do, see, like or share anything I do, so that changes things.. as does the fact that my friends overlap their friends. Just think your reach numbers are a little optimistic, that and I have few friends and no “Klout” to speak of. 😉 And my friends being my friends are likely to be like me, not care for this marketing approach either.

  • 3HatsComm

    @sarah_wallace Agree it’s not 1 to 1, cross-over and extended reach is very important. And yet.. 16% of my friends and followers aren’t apt to do, see, like or share anything I do, so that changes things.. as does the fact that my friends overlap their friends. Just think your reach numbers are a little optimistic, that and I have few friends and no “Klout” to speak of. 😉 And my friends being my friends are likely to be like me, not care for this marketing approach either.

  • 3HatsComm

    Gini, Location-based and mobile marketing are set to explode, no doubt. We’re at what, 30% smartphone ownership now? So yeah, in a few years the Groupons of the world will have something for sure. And yet… people don’t like being marketed now. They like to buy, do not like to be sold. We fast forward ads on the DVR, trash junk direct mail, delete and unsub from the spam we can’t block. I get that Chris Brogan looked at profiles to see if his book would be helpful, relevent to them but it still feels.. stalkery. As always the comments here are great, smart, funny. Except for @HowieSPM you should really think about blocking him. 😉 FWIW.

  • 3HatsComm

    Gini, Location-based and mobile marketing are set to explode, no doubt. We’re at what, 30% smartphone ownership now? So yeah, in a few years the Groupons of the world will have something for sure. And yet… people don’t like being marketed now. They like to buy, do not like to be sold. We fast forward ads on the DVR, trash junk direct mail, delete and unsub from the spam we can’t block. I get that Chris Brogan looked at profiles to see if his book would be helpful, relevent to them but it still feels.. stalkery. As always the comments here are great, smart, funny. Except for @HowieSPM you should really think about blocking him. 😉 FWIW.

  • I don’t think you’re reading Chris Brogan’s post right. The title wasn’t “How to make 10 K.” See what he says:

    “Did I sell a few thousand more books? No. But did I start a story for someone else to tell other people? Yes…This isn’t a very efficient use of your time, but it was fun, and it gives you a new way to think about services like Twitter and FourSquare.”

    See, he admits it’s inefficient. He admits it’s not a business model. But it DOES start new relationships and gives people something incredible to talk about.

    Instead of criticizing Chris for not telling us how to make $$, commend him for his unique, human business ideas. It’s what makes him Chris Brogan.

  • I don’t think you’re reading Chris Brogan’s post right. The title wasn’t “How to make 10 K.” See what he says:

    “Did I sell a few thousand more books? No. But did I start a story for someone else to tell other people? Yes…This isn’t a very efficient use of your time, but it was fun, and it gives you a new way to think about services like Twitter and FourSquare.”

    See, he admits it’s inefficient. He admits it’s not a business model. But it DOES start new relationships and gives people something incredible to talk about.

    Instead of criticizing Chris for not telling us how to make $$, commend him for his unique, human business ideas. It’s what makes him Chris Brogan.

  • charityestrella

    So…I hate to be a disagree-er, but that seems to be the taste of the blog comments I’ve made this week – so, sorry Gini!

    Full disclosure: I work for Chris as the facilitator of his non-profit community, 501 Mission Place.

    Despite my personal and professional relationship with Chris, I rarely comment on his blog’s or get involved with disagreements over his posts even though I have opinions, sometimes positive and sometimes not-so on them. I’m not actually defending him here, I’m defending a whole bunch of people like him who routinely come under fire for reasons that never seem to come from a clear view of what they actually wrote.

    I guess if Chris had said, “hey authors, here’s a great way to sell more books and make money that all of you should try” I could understand being bothered enough to make any kind of deal about it, but that’s not what he said. This is what he said:

    “Hey, published authors looking for more readers: Want to have some fun? Use FourSquare and Twitter to make a few potential new relationships happen.”

    Want to have some fun and make a few new relationships happen? That’s what he proposed.

    Very few things in life, save for water and air, work the same way with the same effectiveness for everyone. Even something as vital as sleep is not one size fits all, so it’s always puzzled me when people expect that everything someone else puts into the public ether will or should work for them, or if it’s even applicable or appropriate. That will never be the case. Not all of Chris’ advice works for me. Neither does all of NTEN’s, Beth Kanter’s, Seth Godin’s or any other person with recognizable presence (and when I say recognizable, I mean recognizable in their field). I don’t expect it too and it doesn’t bother me when it doesn’t.

    I guess I could see your cause for alarm over the people who commented on his post in agreement who also advise authors as clients….if those people had stated that their agreement also came along with a declaration that they were going to call said clients and suggest they do what Chris did as an avenue to convert new customers. I hope the consultants that commented favorably are smart enough to know which clients, if any, that approach might be beneficial for IF their client wanted to have some fun and develop a FEW new relationships with readers (all Chris suggested).

    I’m not picking on you, Gini, and I’m not even commenting on the validity of Chris’ post – I just think we all need to use our own judgement when reading blog posts, never take anyone’s word for gospel 100% of the time and stop expecting people like Chris to give us a how-to manual. Whether it’s a blog post from Chris or a book from Seth Godin, it’s our responsibility to pick out what might work for us and adapt it to our own needs. If we want more than that from them, they’re available to hire as consultants. For a lot more than the cost of a book 🙂

  • charityestrella

    So…I hate to be a disagree-er, but that seems to be the taste of the blog comments I’ve made this week – so, sorry Gini!

    Full disclosure: I work for Chris as the facilitator of his non-profit community, 501 Mission Place.

    Despite my personal and professional relationship with Chris, I rarely comment on his blog’s or get involved with disagreements over his posts even though I have opinions, sometimes positive and sometimes not-so on them. I’m not actually defending him here, I’m defending a whole bunch of people like him who routinely come under fire for reasons that never seem to come from a clear view of what they actually wrote.

    I guess if Chris had said, “hey authors, here’s a great way to sell more books and make money that all of you should try” I could understand being bothered enough to make any kind of deal about it, but that’s not what he said. This is what he said:

    “Hey, published authors looking for more readers: Want to have some fun? Use FourSquare and Twitter to make a few potential new relationships happen.”

    Want to have some fun and make a few new relationships happen? That’s what he proposed.

    Very few things in life, save for water and air, work the same way with the same effectiveness for everyone. Even something as vital as sleep is not one size fits all, so it’s always puzzled me when people expect that everything someone else puts into the public ether will or should work for them, or if it’s even applicable or appropriate. That will never be the case. Not all of Chris’ advice works for me. Neither does all of NTEN’s, Beth Kanter’s, Seth Godin’s or any other person with recognizable presence (and when I say recognizable, I mean recognizable in their field). I don’t expect it too and it doesn’t bother me when it doesn’t.

    I guess I could see your cause for alarm over the people who commented on his post in agreement who also advise authors as clients….if those people had stated that their agreement also came along with a declaration that they were going to call said clients and suggest they do what Chris did as an avenue to convert new customers. I hope the consultants that commented favorably are smart enough to know which clients, if any, that approach might be beneficial for IF their client wanted to have some fun and develop a FEW new relationships with readers (all Chris suggested).

    I’m not picking on you, Gini, and I’m not even commenting on the validity of Chris’ post – I just think we all need to use our own judgement when reading blog posts, never take anyone’s word for gospel 100% of the time and stop expecting people like Chris to give us a how-to manual. Whether it’s a blog post from Chris or a book from Seth Godin, it’s our responsibility to pick out what might work for us and adapt it to our own needs. If we want more than that from them, they’re available to hire as consultants. For a lot more than the cost of a book 🙂

  • @charityestrella Exactly. You said it much better than I tried to.

    “I guess if Chris had said, “hey authors, here’s a great way to sell more books and make money that all of you should try” I could understand being bothered enough to make any kind of deal about it, but that’s not what he said. “

  • @charityestrella Exactly. You said it much better than I tried to.

    “I guess if Chris had said, “hey authors, here’s a great way to sell more books and make money that all of you should try” I could understand being bothered enough to make any kind of deal about it, but that’s not what he said. “

  • HowieSPM

    @Artists_Discuss@charityestrella
    I appreciate Charity you coming and writng what you did.

    The debate wasn’t as much about ‘Chris is crazy’ even though plenty of jokes flew including from me because thats my role here… but really what if all Businesses tried this? That is really what the debate was about more than anything. And the consensus was bad advice for the general business populace out there. If Chris never wrote the post we never would of discussed it.

    Which BTW is something I am personally battling in Mobile, which is being against push advertising which will degrade the platform into what email is. Clutter. So a lot of the comment here were about that. No different than why the average person doesn’t talk to more than 4.7 brands via social. Don’t clutter my space. And sadly the moment we open the door its like floodgates.

    We have all seen the old footage of early attempts at flying machines. Eventually one of those crazy ideas worked right? Kudos for Chris to put one out there even if it scared the beejeezus out of me. And thanks to @ginidietrich for bringing this incredible discussion to the table. I don’t know Chris, follow him, or read him. He is a bit mainstream for me. But he did come up with a fun idea for us to dissect here. So kudos to him for that.

  • HowieSPM

    @Artists_Discuss@charityestrella
    I appreciate Charity you coming and writng what you did.

    The debate wasn’t as much about ‘Chris is crazy’ even though plenty of jokes flew including from me because thats my role here… but really what if all Businesses tried this? That is really what the debate was about more than anything. And the consensus was bad advice for the general business populace out there. If Chris never wrote the post we never would of discussed it.

    Which BTW is something I am personally battling in Mobile, which is being against push advertising which will degrade the platform into what email is. Clutter. So a lot of the comment here were about that. No different than why the average person doesn’t talk to more than 4.7 brands via social. Don’t clutter my space. And sadly the moment we open the door its like floodgates.

    We have all seen the old footage of early attempts at flying machines. Eventually one of those crazy ideas worked right? Kudos for Chris to put one out there even if it scared the beejeezus out of me. And thanks to @ginidietrich for bringing this incredible discussion to the table. I don’t know Chris, follow him, or read him. He is a bit mainstream for me. But he did come up with a fun idea for us to dissect here. So kudos to him for that.

  • Posted this on Facebook, thought I’d share it here:

    How about an alternative approach. He blogs and tweets to his connections and asks them to make sure that, whenever they check in, to leave a tip to check out Trust Agents. That way, when you check in, you have the reco from your friends and… not some guy on the Interwebz…

    Would offer instant trust due to friendship conenctions; Chris is mobiliizing his trust agent army; and will give great ROI on how many relationships Chris (or anyone else) has online that count. Heck, might even be something for Klout to score influence on… 😉

  • Posted this on Facebook, thought I’d share it here:

    How about an alternative approach. He blogs and tweets to his connections and asks them to make sure that, whenever they check in, to leave a tip to check out Trust Agents. That way, when you check in, you have the reco from your friends and… not some guy on the Interwebz…

    Would offer instant trust due to friendship conenctions; Chris is mobiliizing his trust agent army; and will give great ROI on how many relationships Chris (or anyone else) has online that count. Heck, might even be something for Klout to score influence on… 😉

  • jelenawoehr

    @charityestrella “…and stop expecting people like Chris to give us a how-to manual. “

    Charity, I don’t want you to feel like I’m picking on you, and I thought your post was well thought out and in-depth. I enjoyed reading it. But… isn’t the exact book Chris is trying to sell with this strategy “a how-to manual?”

    The subtitle is: “Using the Web to Build Influence, Improve Reputation, and Earn Trust.” If we can’t expect Chris to give us an accurate how-to manual when he chooses to share his marketing advice freely online, why should we buy one from him?

  • jelenawoehr

    @charityestrella “…and stop expecting people like Chris to give us a how-to manual. “

    Charity, I don’t want you to feel like I’m picking on you, and I thought your post was well thought out and in-depth. I enjoyed reading it. But… isn’t the exact book Chris is trying to sell with this strategy “a how-to manual?”

    The subtitle is: “Using the Web to Build Influence, Improve Reputation, and Earn Trust.” If we can’t expect Chris to give us an accurate how-to manual when he chooses to share his marketing advice freely online, why should we buy one from him?

  • KenMueller

    @DannyBrown I like this Danny. Excellent approach, that seems to return us to some degree to what’s at the heart of Social Media. I think THIS is what SM is meant to be. Word of mouth and referrals.

  • KenMueller

    @DannyBrown I like this Danny. Excellent approach, that seems to return us to some degree to what’s at the heart of Social Media. I think THIS is what SM is meant to be. Word of mouth and referrals.

  • charityestrella

    @jelenawoehr It’s not that I’m saying Chris, or anyone like him shouldn’t give accurate advice. I’m saying that *noone* can give you a step by step how-to manual because they’re not running your business. Even within the same industry, different businesses have different needs, different audiences, different desired outcomes. Advice tailored just for us that we can be justified in expecting to be guaranteed comes from a consultant who is paid to develop strategy for your business. Advice that you can take in, think about and then tweak to apply (or not apply) is what we should expect from a book or a blog. For example, some great tweaks were suggested in the comments here for certain types of business in certain types of situations.

    I have to say again that I’m not necessarily defending Chris – I just see a lot of comments or blog posts like this that approach what someone has said in a distorted way. I feel a little like that’s what went on here, and I see it go on all over the place in reference to all sorts of people beyond Chris.

  • charityestrella

    @jelenawoehr It’s not that I’m saying Chris, or anyone like him shouldn’t give accurate advice. I’m saying that *noone* can give you a step by step how-to manual because they’re not running your business. Even within the same industry, different businesses have different needs, different audiences, different desired outcomes. Advice tailored just for us that we can be justified in expecting to be guaranteed comes from a consultant who is paid to develop strategy for your business. Advice that you can take in, think about and then tweak to apply (or not apply) is what we should expect from a book or a blog. For example, some great tweaks were suggested in the comments here for certain types of business in certain types of situations.

    I have to say again that I’m not necessarily defending Chris – I just see a lot of comments or blog posts like this that approach what someone has said in a distorted way. I feel a little like that’s what went on here, and I see it go on all over the place in reference to all sorts of people beyond Chris.

  • jelenawoehr

    @charityestrella I understand what you mean, and I agree literal interpretations of marketing advice aren’t always the right way to go. Often the general mindset and attitude is the core of the advice, not any specific tactic or technique. On the other hand, I think the particular tactic advised here comes across as spammy and creepy for almost anyone. It’s not a matter of “it won’t work for some,” it’s a matter of “it may work for a very few, and probably not you,” which makes me wonder why he gave that advice to the general public in the first place.

    In short, I see both sides here, and I think it’s good of you to wade boldly into the comments section. I like Chris, I follow him, I might buy his book if I happened to run across it at the store. I have no beef with him at all and I agree that the Web version of “sound-bites” are often taken out of context in the blogosphere. But I think this criticism generated a valuable and valid discussion–including your posts of course!

  • jelenawoehr

    @charityestrella I understand what you mean, and I agree literal interpretations of marketing advice aren’t always the right way to go. Often the general mindset and attitude is the core of the advice, not any specific tactic or technique. On the other hand, I think the particular tactic advised here comes across as spammy and creepy for almost anyone. It’s not a matter of “it won’t work for some,” it’s a matter of “it may work for a very few, and probably not you,” which makes me wonder why he gave that advice to the general public in the first place.

    In short, I see both sides here, and I think it’s good of you to wade boldly into the comments section. I like Chris, I follow him, I might buy his book if I happened to run across it at the store. I have no beef with him at all and I agree that the Web version of “sound-bites” are often taken out of context in the blogosphere. But I think this criticism generated a valuable and valid discussion–including your posts of course!

  • FollowtheLawyer

    @charityestrella Much of the conversation on this thread deals not with what Brogan actually proposed — even modestly — but rather the premise that underlies it: “Want to have fun?”

    Fun for whom?

    It’s presumptuous (aka spamy/stalkery/creepy) to assume that the recipients of a self-serving message out of the blue would automatically find it “fun.”

    Further, what would that “new relationship” with Chris Brogan mean for the recipient of this fun exchange? A reciprocal, ongoing, chat-with-you-again-tomorrow, inner-circle bond?

    If I received such an approach, even as an admirer my message back would be “Why are you only interested in engaging with me 1:1 when I’m physically approximate to your books?”

    So it might help these poor, misunderstood social media titans who are held to impossibly high standards of “how-to” thoroughness to remind them that they are neither “all that,” nor bonus bags of chips, and that their ideas of fun relationship building can sound solipsistic, even when reframed by apologists.

  • FollowtheLawyer

    @charityestrella Much of the conversation on this thread deals not with what Brogan actually proposed — even modestly — but rather the premise that underlies it: “Want to have fun?”

    Fun for whom?

    It’s presumptuous (aka spamy/stalkery/creepy) to assume that the recipients of a self-serving message out of the blue would automatically find it “fun.”

    Further, what would that “new relationship” with Chris Brogan mean for the recipient of this fun exchange? A reciprocal, ongoing, chat-with-you-again-tomorrow, inner-circle bond?

    If I received such an approach, even as an admirer my message back would be “Why are you only interested in engaging with me 1:1 when I’m physically approximate to your books?”

    So it might help these poor, misunderstood social media titans who are held to impossibly high standards of “how-to” thoroughness to remind them that they are neither “all that,” nor bonus bags of chips, and that their ideas of fun relationship building can sound solipsistic, even when reframed by apologists.

  • jackiewolven

    I agree with you – it is a small strategy that isn’t going to get many results. I would MUCH rather have the author working on writing new books, articles, etc then zipping me a quick tweet. I guess I am more into the big picture. Good for you for saying something – I think even Brogan can stand up to the heat 😉

  • jackiewolven

    I agree with you – it is a small strategy that isn’t going to get many results. I would MUCH rather have the author working on writing new books, articles, etc then zipping me a quick tweet. I guess I am more into the big picture. Good for you for saying something – I think even Brogan can stand up to the heat 😉

  • JulioRVarela

    Gini, this is a great post. I think it borders a bit on the self-serving. I would feel kind of creeped out if someone just sent me a tweet because I just happened to be in a bookstore. To be honest with you, and I don’t care who it is, I would very likey tweet people and say that so and so just tried to sell me something without even know me, etc.

    It’s like getting approached by a salesman when you just want to browse. Now, don’t get me wrong, Brogan has his following and he is a great guy on Twitter. But sending out this advice to people who aren’t established brands really doesn’t work. It’s best that you start with your initial network and work out from there. Why do people want such instant return on social media? Don’ they know that this takes time, a lot of it?

    Great post.

    J

  • JulioRVarela

    Gini, this is a great post. I think it borders a bit on the self-serving. I would feel kind of creeped out if someone just sent me a tweet because I just happened to be in a bookstore. To be honest with you, and I don’t care who it is, I would very likey tweet people and say that so and so just tried to sell me something without even know me, etc.

    It’s like getting approached by a salesman when you just want to browse. Now, don’t get me wrong, Brogan has his following and he is a great guy on Twitter. But sending out this advice to people who aren’t established brands really doesn’t work. It’s best that you start with your initial network and work out from there. Why do people want such instant return on social media? Don’ they know that this takes time, a lot of it?

    Great post.

    J

  • FollowtheLawyer

    Word.

  • FollowtheLawyer

    Word.

  • JulioRVarela

    @charityestrella Good point, but at the same time, as an author and a writer who markets his works, I think this is bad advice, just my opinion. I would think you would have more fun just connecting with your network and nurturing that as opposed to give some advice that might disappoint people and could upset people. Thanks for your comments, I understand where you are coming from. I think it’s best to just be yourself (and Chris is) and not lead with a brand. The brand comes after. Thanks!

    J

  • JulioRVarela

    @charityestrella Good point, but at the same time, as an author and a writer who markets his works, I think this is bad advice, just my opinion. I would think you would have more fun just connecting with your network and nurturing that as opposed to give some advice that might disappoint people and could upset people. Thanks for your comments, I understand where you are coming from. I think it’s best to just be yourself (and Chris is) and not lead with a brand. The brand comes after. Thanks!

    J

  • I found the point of Brogan’s article to be about getting creative with these resources. I agree with Chris that there are some spur of the moment things you can try. This stuff doesn’t all have to be formulaic.

    I also think he was suggesting that if you touch a couple people individually, it can create a viral effect through the story told. Its slower, but it can work.

    Sure, this is not an idea you want to sink your entire budget into, and if I don’t know who Chris Brogan is, I’m probably going to ignore him or block him, but it is an opportunity to touch someone and maybe their friends or Facebook followers.

    I had a similar situation just by getting a personal tweet from a musician I liked. It creates a “exciting” or “unique” moment. Its like having a celebrity show up at a hospital to see sick kids…it can create a buzz.

  • I found the point of Brogan’s article to be about getting creative with these resources. I agree with Chris that there are some spur of the moment things you can try. This stuff doesn’t all have to be formulaic.

    I also think he was suggesting that if you touch a couple people individually, it can create a viral effect through the story told. Its slower, but it can work.

    Sure, this is not an idea you want to sink your entire budget into, and if I don’t know who Chris Brogan is, I’m probably going to ignore him or block him, but it is an opportunity to touch someone and maybe their friends or Facebook followers.

    I had a similar situation just by getting a personal tweet from a musician I liked. It creates a “exciting” or “unique” moment. Its like having a celebrity show up at a hospital to see sick kids…it can create a buzz.

  • @DannyBrown Yes, break the mold. Try something different to create a buzz.

    Although I think Chris’ suggestion has a little more star struck ability to win someone over, rather than sell them.

  • @DannyBrown Yes, break the mold. Try something different to create a buzz.

    Although I think Chris’ suggestion has a little more star struck ability to win someone over, rather than sell them.

  • @HowieSPM @Artists_Discuss @charityestrella @ginidietrich

    “If Chris never wrote the post we never would of discussed it.”

    Great point. I agree with Gini that this is not at all an economically sound marketing tactic, but it is an idea that may work for someone. Thank you for this post, Gini. It created a great discussion/debate in the comments, which probably made things clearer for more people than just myself.

  • @HowieSPM @Artists_Discuss @charityestrella @ginidietrich

    “If Chris never wrote the post we never would of discussed it.”

    Great point. I agree with Gini that this is not at all an economically sound marketing tactic, but it is an idea that may work for someone. Thank you for this post, Gini. It created a great discussion/debate in the comments, which probably made things clearer for more people than just myself.

  • @charityestrella
    Hi Charity,

    Things get distorted at times because people tend to base their views on their experiences. I agree that no one can provide a specific how-to manual for individual businesses because the dynamics are so different from company to company. As a proponent of testing everything, I think that it is great that Chris is trying new things and sharing the experience. The issue I have with his post is two-fold and has nothing to do with ROI.

    First, once given leadership status by a community, what responsibility does the person have to his or her followers? I agree with your point that everyone should use judgment when considering new tactics, but that simply doesn’t happen. There will always people who try everything suggested by the people they view as leaders. Chris has established himself as a leader. Shouldn’t he be trusted (or expected) to provide qualifiers? At what point does saying, “Hey, published authors looking for more readers: Want to have some fun? Use FourSquare and Twitter to make a few potential new relationships happen,” without noting that some might find it invasive become reckless? There’s no “test this to see if works” or “this might work for you” qualifiers within the post.

    Second, the marketing strategy Chris recommends in his blog and speeches is one that finds people seeking your products or services and provides them with more information to make a better buying decision. His recommended approach for authors skipped the search for people seeking books about specific topics and went for people who the “book would make sense to them.” This moves it from one type of marketing to the other as mentioned in his “Two Sides of Marketing” post. The “Bigger Ear Marketing for Authors” post is inconsistent with the messages he’s been posting for years.

    Maybe some of the distortion you see is due to people trying to process the shift from engaging a community to targeting people based on location and profile.

  • @charityestrella
    Hi Charity,

    Things get distorted at times because people tend to base their views on their experiences. I agree that no one can provide a specific how-to manual for individual businesses because the dynamics are so different from company to company. As a proponent of testing everything, I think that it is great that Chris is trying new things and sharing the experience. The issue I have with his post is two-fold and has nothing to do with ROI.

    First, once given leadership status by a community, what responsibility does the person have to his or her followers? I agree with your point that everyone should use judgment when considering new tactics, but that simply doesn’t happen. There will always people who try everything suggested by the people they view as leaders. Chris has established himself as a leader. Shouldn’t he be trusted (or expected) to provide qualifiers? At what point does saying, “Hey, published authors looking for more readers: Want to have some fun? Use FourSquare and Twitter to make a few potential new relationships happen,” without noting that some might find it invasive become reckless? There’s no “test this to see if works” or “this might work for you” qualifiers within the post.

    Second, the marketing strategy Chris recommends in his blog and speeches is one that finds people seeking your products or services and provides them with more information to make a better buying decision. His recommended approach for authors skipped the search for people seeking books about specific topics and went for people who the “book would make sense to them.” This moves it from one type of marketing to the other as mentioned in his “Two Sides of Marketing” post. The “Bigger Ear Marketing for Authors” post is inconsistent with the messages he’s been posting for years.

    Maybe some of the distortion you see is due to people trying to process the shift from engaging a community to targeting people based on location and profile.

  • kmskala

    @DannyBrown Problem with this Danny is that most people take random book suggestions as a last resort. They are more likely to ask their friends/family, network and book store worker first, as opposed to some random person who left a tip on Foursquare. Book recommendations and restaurant recommendations are vastly different.

  • kmskala

    @DannyBrown Problem with this Danny is that most people take random book suggestions as a last resort. They are more likely to ask their friends/family, network and book store worker first, as opposed to some random person who left a tip on Foursquare. Book recommendations and restaurant recommendations are vastly different.

  • Gini, While I have to agree with you when it comes to book sales, for other small business owners what Chris says makes a lot of sense.

    How many restaurants and other small businesses could value from paying more attention and engaging with their customers? If a customer checks in to your restaurant, they are looking to establish a relationship with your business. Why not say hi and ask them about how their experience was and whether or not they liked the food?

    Why aren’t more businesses listening on Foursquare and Twitter to what people are saying? I posted a couple of tweets saying that I was looking for a venue in San Francisco to host a meetup. It was a perfect opportunity for a bar, restaurant, or other location to step up and say “hey, we have space, what night are you looking to host your event?” While I got a few suggestions from a few local friends, no business tweeted me back. Big opportunity lost.

    You’re right, certain authors like Chris could probably find a better use of their time that would make them $10k instead of the $10 from a book sale, but it might be something worth trying out. (And, you never know … one of those people that you sell your $10 book to in the bookstore might be willing to pay the $22k figure to have you come out and do a day’s worth of consulting with their business. But, you would have never known if you hadn’t established the relationship.)

  • Gini, While I have to agree with you when it comes to book sales, for other small business owners what Chris says makes a lot of sense.

    How many restaurants and other small businesses could value from paying more attention and engaging with their customers? If a customer checks in to your restaurant, they are looking to establish a relationship with your business. Why not say hi and ask them about how their experience was and whether or not they liked the food?

    Why aren’t more businesses listening on Foursquare and Twitter to what people are saying? I posted a couple of tweets saying that I was looking for a venue in San Francisco to host a meetup. It was a perfect opportunity for a bar, restaurant, or other location to step up and say “hey, we have space, what night are you looking to host your event?” While I got a few suggestions from a few local friends, no business tweeted me back. Big opportunity lost.

    You’re right, certain authors like Chris could probably find a better use of their time that would make them $10k instead of the $10 from a book sale, but it might be something worth trying out. (And, you never know … one of those people that you sell your $10 book to in the bookstore might be willing to pay the $22k figure to have you come out and do a day’s worth of consulting with their business. But, you would have never known if you hadn’t established the relationship.)

  • AmandaMagee

    Seems to me that if we are talking about using things that are intended to connect and communicate, it’s perfectly reasonable to explore different things, be they for fun or financial gain.

    Someones posted a Woody Allen quote that said something to the effect of, “If you aren’t failing frequently than you aren’y trying enough new things.” I think that like striking up conversations in person, what we try in these different online avenues is similar. Trial and error.

    I can appreciate the sentiment that it would be creepy or come off as self- aggrandizing to be approached in this very specific way, but it could also be the most memorable thing an author could do. It could also be fun, I think the potential ‘effectiveness’ of this arena is inherently nestled in how authentic the exchanges are.

  • AmandaMagee

    Seems to me that if we are talking about using things that are intended to connect and communicate, it’s perfectly reasonable to explore different things, be they for fun or financial gain.

    Someones posted a Woody Allen quote that said something to the effect of, “If you aren’t failing frequently than you aren’y trying enough new things.” I think that like striking up conversations in person, what we try in these different online avenues is similar. Trial and error.

    I can appreciate the sentiment that it would be creepy or come off as self- aggrandizing to be approached in this very specific way, but it could also be the most memorable thing an author could do. It could also be fun, I think the potential ‘effectiveness’ of this arena is inherently nestled in how authentic the exchanges are.

  • Nick

    Gini, I have to agree with you on this. You always have to keep in mind the value of your time.

    Point being, I think if you are going to target so specific and with such a small audience, you need to make sure that specific sale, justifies the time you spent.

    I would say the biggest mistake most people make, is they calculate their ROI based on money alone. The biggest part of that equation is how much time you spent. The time investment is in most cases substancially more important.

  • Nick

    Gini, I have to agree with you on this. You always have to keep in mind the value of your time.

    Point being, I think if you are going to target so specific and with such a small audience, you need to make sure that specific sale, justifies the time you spent.

    I would say the biggest mistake most people make, is they calculate their ROI based on money alone. The biggest part of that equation is how much time you spent. The time investment is in most cases substancially more important.

  • ginidietrich

    @Nick It sucks when we agree, doesn’t it?!

  • ginidietrich

    @Nick It sucks when we agree, doesn’t it?!

  • ginidietrich

    @AmandaMagee We actually agree, which was my initial point…if Ayn Rand (for instance) tweeted me while I was at the bookstore, I WOULD FREAK OUT! But my point is that, while this tact certainly works for Chris because of his star power, it doesn’t work for the rest of us.

  • ginidietrich

    @AmandaMagee We actually agree, which was my initial point…if Ayn Rand (for instance) tweeted me while I was at the bookstore, I WOULD FREAK OUT! But my point is that, while this tact certainly works for Chris because of his star power, it doesn’t work for the rest of us.

  • ginidietrich

    @sue_anne Boy I just don’t agree. If you used LBS like @DannyBrown outlines, then we’re in total agreement. But if you’re stalking people who are in your restaurant on Twitter, from the back room, I just think that’s a whole hunk of aggressiveness. But there are ways to use Foursquare and Places that doesn’t come across as creepy and stalkerish. In that we agree.

  • ginidietrich

    @sue_anne Boy I just don’t agree. If you used LBS like @DannyBrown outlines, then we’re in total agreement. But if you’re stalking people who are in your restaurant on Twitter, from the back room, I just think that’s a whole hunk of aggressiveness. But there are ways to use Foursquare and Places that doesn’t come across as creepy and stalkerish. In that we agree.

  • ginidietrich

    @hannush Yeah, I totally agree that if you know who the author (or other artist is), it works. My issue is there are lots and lots and lots of people who look up to Chris who own businesses and don’t have his star power. If they try this, they’re just going to turn away people.

  • ginidietrich

    @hannush Yeah, I totally agree that if you know who the author (or other artist is), it works. My issue is there are lots and lots and lots of people who look up to Chris who own businesses and don’t have his star power. If they try this, they’re just going to turn away people.

  • ginidietrich

    @JulioRVarela The self-serving and arrogant part was what I intentionally left out. 🙂

  • ginidietrich

    @JulioRVarela The self-serving and arrogant part was what I intentionally left out. 🙂

  • ginidietrich

    @jackiewolven I think he can, too!

  • ginidietrich

    @jackiewolven I think he can, too!

  • ginidietrich

    @DannyBrown I’m with @FollowtheLawyer . Word.

  • ginidietrich

    @DannyBrown I’m with @FollowtheLawyer . Word.

  • ginidietrich

    @charityestrella I guess I don’t really need to add anything here. So I will thank you for stopping by, being honest about your affiliation with Chris, and participating in the conversation!

  • ginidietrich

    @charityestrella I guess I don’t really need to add anything here. So I will thank you for stopping by, being honest about your affiliation with Chris, and participating in the conversation!

  • ginidietrich

    @Artists_Discuss Did you read the entire blog post? I said he said it’s inefficient and I said he said you’re not going to sell a ton of books. And I’m not criticizing Chris. I’m criticizing the advice that he’s giving, admittedly, to other published authors, but also to his other readers who will think it’s OK for them to use this kind of technique.

  • ginidietrich

    @Artists_Discuss Did you read the entire blog post? I said he said it’s inefficient and I said he said you’re not going to sell a ton of books. And I’m not criticizing Chris. I’m criticizing the advice that he’s giving, admittedly, to other published authors, but also to his other readers who will think it’s OK for them to use this kind of technique.

  • ginidietrich

    @3HatsComm I totally agree. I keep trying to block @HowieSPM and then he shows up in a different form. It’s a full-time job!

  • ginidietrich

    @3HatsComm I totally agree. I keep trying to block @HowieSPM and then he shows up in a different form. It’s a full-time job!

  • ginidietrich

    @FollowtheLawyer Crazy.

  • ginidietrich

    @FollowtheLawyer Crazy.

  • @ginidietrich I could see that. The creepy factor is definitely a possibility. Thanks for making us think.

  • @ginidietrich I could see that. The creepy factor is definitely a possibility. Thanks for making us think.

  • AmandaMagee

    @ginidietrich Agreed on the remarkable author front. However, I was just wishing that I could find a new blog to read and a couple of fresh perspectives on Twitter. I am to the point where I welcome connections that happen in different ways. So, providing the author (or small business person) was behind something that in someway interested me, I would, for at least a trial period, pursue learning more about them.

    Have a great night!

  • AmandaMagee

    @ginidietrich Agreed on the remarkable author front. However, I was just wishing that I could find a new blog to read and a couple of fresh perspectives on Twitter. I am to the point where I welcome connections that happen in different ways. So, providing the author (or small business person) was behind something that in someway interested me, I would, for at least a trial period, pursue learning more about them.

    Have a great night!

  • While I agree that it doesn’t seem like it’s worth the time, having that personal interaction with a potential reader could mean more than just $10. If they go and talk to their friends about the book and about their good experience, it could bring even more business. But that is a big IF, so you really need to decide that’s what you want to do with your day.

    With 132 comments so far, I’m still waiting for chrisbrogan to join the debate.

  • While I agree that it doesn’t seem like it’s worth the time, having that personal interaction with a potential reader could mean more than just $10. If they go and talk to their friends about the book and about their good experience, it could bring even more business. But that is a big IF, so you really need to decide that’s what you want to do with your day.

    With 132 comments so far, I’m still waiting for chrisbrogan to join the debate.

  • Nick

    @ginidietrich Yes. Our entire relationship is based on rolling our eyes at each other (most of the time when the other is not looking). I feel very uncomfortable now.

  • Nick

    @ginidietrich Yes. Our entire relationship is based on rolling our eyes at each other (most of the time when the other is not looking). I feel very uncomfortable now.

  • ginidietrich

    @Nick I’m rolling at my eyes at you now.

  • ginidietrich

    @Nick I’m rolling at my eyes at you now.

  • ginidietrich

    @AmandaMagee What?! You don’t like the social media echo chamber?? Hrumph. 🙂 You have a great night, too!

  • ginidietrich

    @AmandaMagee What?! You don’t like the social media echo chamber?? Hrumph. 🙂 You have a great night, too!

  • ginidietrich

    @hannush Thanks for the professional discourse!

  • ginidietrich

    @hannush Thanks for the professional discourse!

  • HowieSPM

    @AmandaMagee @ginidietrich But Amanda imagine if 20 authors contacted you this way in the span of 15 minutes to your phone? I think the ‘Be Creative’ ‘Be Unique’ ‘Stand Out’ tactics are great. I love guerrilla marketing as long as its respectful.

  • HowieSPM

    @AmandaMagee @ginidietrich But Amanda imagine if 20 authors contacted you this way in the span of 15 minutes to your phone? I think the ‘Be Creative’ ‘Be Unique’ ‘Stand Out’ tactics are great. I love guerrilla marketing as long as its respectful.

  • ginidietrich

    @jennalanger Are you disagreeing with me?! Gasp! 🙂 I still maintain that this tact totally works for Chris. If he tweeted me while I was in the bookstore, I’d buy the book and talk about it. But it doesn’t work for anyone who doesn’t already have star power. Then you’re just seen as creepy and weird. Even desperate.

  • ginidietrich

    @jennalanger Are you disagreeing with me?! Gasp! 🙂 I still maintain that this tact totally works for Chris. If he tweeted me while I was in the bookstore, I’d buy the book and talk about it. But it doesn’t work for anyone who doesn’t already have star power. Then you’re just seen as creepy and weird. Even desperate.

  • HowieSPM

    @ginidietrich @lisagerber Psst! Lisa if you ever need to vent about oppressive working conditions you can call me, tweet me, its all good. Glad this is on the SECOND page of comments so I can sneak this in and have it secret and all.

    Can you believe 2 pages!?

  • HowieSPM

    @ginidietrich @lisagerber Psst! Lisa if you ever need to vent about oppressive working conditions you can call me, tweet me, its all good. Glad this is on the SECOND page of comments so I can sneak this in and have it secret and all.

    Can you believe 2 pages!?

  • ginidietrich

    @HowieSPM @lisagerber Lisa, ignore Howie.

  • ginidietrich

    @HowieSPM @lisagerber Lisa, ignore Howie.

  • JennaTest

    @ginidietrich True, good point. That’s one thing that makes me question a lot of the “social media mavens” and what they preach. It’s really hard to move from just another tweeter to someone with 50,000 followers that makes an impact on the web. Who was the target audience of his original post, or for the rest of his blog for that matter?

  • JennaTest

    @ginidietrich True, good point. That’s one thing that makes me question a lot of the “social media mavens” and what they preach. It’s really hard to move from just another tweeter to someone with 50,000 followers that makes an impact on the web. Who was the target audience of his original post, or for the rest of his blog for that matter?

  • @ginidietrich True, good point. That’s one thing that makes me question a lot of the “social media mavens” and what they preach. It’s really hard to move from just another tweeter to someone with 50,000 followers that makes an impact on the web. Who was the target audience of his original post, or for the rest of his blog for that matter? (sorry for the extra reply, darn test account 😉

  • @ginidietrich True, good point. That’s one thing that makes me question a lot of the “social media mavens” and what they preach. It’s really hard to move from just another tweeter to someone with 50,000 followers that makes an impact on the web. Who was the target audience of his original post, or for the rest of his blog for that matter? (sorry for the extra reply, darn test account 😉

  • ginidietrich

    @jennalanger OMG! I have almost as many Livefyre points as you!

  • ginidietrich

    @jennalanger OMG! I have almost as many Livefyre points as you!

  • @kmskala I’m not so sure, Kasey. I’d much rather be interested in the view of someone who’s in a book store to buy a book, as opposed to an author trying to sell one. Less room for simple promotion as opposed to genuine recommendation.

  • @kmskala I’m not so sure, Kasey. I’d much rather be interested in the view of someone who’s in a book store to buy a book, as opposed to an author trying to sell one. Less room for simple promotion as opposed to genuine recommendation.

  • Rieva

    As someone who spends a LOT of time in bookstores, I don’t want to be tweeted to by an author imploring me to buy his or her books. I would make an exception for Harper Lee. I agree with whoever (Shonali maybe?) said that tweeting me to buy your book is hardly a social use of social media.

  • Rieva

    As someone who spends a LOT of time in bookstores, I don’t want to be tweeted to by an author imploring me to buy his or her books. I would make an exception for Harper Lee. I agree with whoever (Shonali maybe?) said that tweeting me to buy your book is hardly a social use of social media.

  • 40deuce

    It’s an interesting idea for a tactic, but I agree with you, Gini. For all the effort you put it in wouldn’t really be worth it, plus it may seem creepy and bordering on stalking.

  • 40deuce

    It’s an interesting idea for a tactic, but I agree with you, Gini. For all the effort you put it in wouldn’t really be worth it, plus it may seem creepy and bordering on stalking.

  • aeringuy

    It would be better if he sneakily tapped me on the shoulder while I was perusing in the bookstore. That would really rock.

  • aeringuy

    It would be better if he sneakily tapped me on the shoulder while I was perusing in the bookstore. That would really rock.

  • dino_dogan

    I’ve read that post of his. Keep this in mind. He needs to churn out daily content. He is Mr. $9.95 per month topic wiz. No offense meant by it, its just that it’s his shtick to come up with novel ways of gathering customers.

    As both of you noted, no, its not the greatest use of one’s time. But I want to latch onto a different point in your article.

    You mention that CB is a superstar. That he is. Online anyways. People and businesses I talk to have no freaking idea who Brogans, Vaynerchucks and Godins of the online world are. These names are utterly meaningless to them. Gary to a lesser extent since hes done a lot of TV appearances. …but still.

    I will say this. Online world is all about one on one sales. (aren’t sales always that way tho?) And CB’s methodology falls right in line with that.

  • dino_dogan

    I’ve read that post of his. Keep this in mind. He needs to churn out daily content. He is Mr. $9.95 per month topic wiz. No offense meant by it, its just that it’s his shtick to come up with novel ways of gathering customers.

    As both of you noted, no, its not the greatest use of one’s time. But I want to latch onto a different point in your article.

    You mention that CB is a superstar. That he is. Online anyways. People and businesses I talk to have no freaking idea who Brogans, Vaynerchucks and Godins of the online world are. These names are utterly meaningless to them. Gary to a lesser extent since hes done a lot of TV appearances. …but still.

    I will say this. Online world is all about one on one sales. (aren’t sales always that way tho?) And CB’s methodology falls right in line with that.

  • mitchjoel

    CPA. CPA. Cost Per Acquisition. None of us can even come close to saying that this is a right or wrong technique until we know what Chris (or anyone else) is willing to pay to acquire a new book reader. For some, it might be $0.10 for others it might be $5. He (hopefully) has his own marketing metrics and feels that this type of tactic has ROI. ROI for him might also not be just the sale of a book, but the engagement with one more person and their social graph.

    It’s easy to shoot holes into ideas. It’s easy to take an industry standard percentage and apply it. In my many years of Marketing, I can’t remember ever using the industry standard as a guide (it never made sense).

    It reminds me of Google AdWords: the people who complain the most about their efficacy rarely have insight into their own CPA and what they’re willing to do to achieve it.

  • mitchjoel

    CPA. CPA. Cost Per Acquisition. None of us can even come close to saying that this is a right or wrong technique until we know what Chris (or anyone else) is willing to pay to acquire a new book reader. For some, it might be $0.10 for others it might be $5. He (hopefully) has his own marketing metrics and feels that this type of tactic has ROI. ROI for him might also not be just the sale of a book, but the engagement with one more person and their social graph.

    It’s easy to shoot holes into ideas. It’s easy to take an industry standard percentage and apply it. In my many years of Marketing, I can’t remember ever using the industry standard as a guide (it never made sense).

    It reminds me of Google AdWords: the people who complain the most about their efficacy rarely have insight into their own CPA and what they’re willing to do to achieve it.

  • AmandaMagee

    @HowieSPM @ginidietrich I suppose the gamble I make by saying I’d be ok with it, is that I think there are very few people who’d actually make that effort. Listening, monitoring, executing, waiting…way more than a lot of people are willing to do.
    I am sure I’ve just jinxed myself to a day of spam.

  • AmandaMagee

    @HowieSPM @ginidietrich I suppose the gamble I make by saying I’d be ok with it, is that I think there are very few people who’d actually make that effort. Listening, monitoring, executing, waiting…way more than a lot of people are willing to do.
    I am sure I’ve just jinxed myself to a day of spam.

  • @mitchjoel With regards Google AdWords, Mitch, that’s more to do with crappy ad companies scamming customers out of money because they don’t understand the intricacies – it’s not the people, necessarily, because they trust their in the hands of “experts”.

    It *is *easy* to shoot holes into ideas; Chris has shot plenty holes into ideas before, as have I, as I’m sure you have. It’s called opinion, usually backed up with reasons why.

    Where I see people questioning the idea is right here in the comment stream, and much of it is very valid.

    Interesting exercise? Yes. Worth it? Perhaps. A more scientific approach and reasoning behind it could have been added to the original post. Most probably.

    I’m surprised you never used an industry standard as a guide – even using a guide to form the complete opposite of what’s recommended has use, no?

  • @mitchjoel With regards Google AdWords, Mitch, that’s more to do with crappy ad companies scamming customers out of money because they don’t understand the intricacies – it’s not the people, necessarily, because they trust their in the hands of “experts”.

    It *is *easy* to shoot holes into ideas; Chris has shot plenty holes into ideas before, as have I, as I’m sure you have. It’s called opinion, usually backed up with reasons why.

    Where I see people questioning the idea is right here in the comment stream, and much of it is very valid.

    Interesting exercise? Yes. Worth it? Perhaps. A more scientific approach and reasoning behind it could have been added to the original post. Most probably.

    I’m surprised you never used an industry standard as a guide – even using a guide to form the complete opposite of what’s recommended has use, no?

  • mitchjoel

    @DannyBrown I think a lot of companies just try things long before thinking about what they’re willing to pay for a net new consumer. I see it in small, medium and even large businesses. I see agencies running programs without that detail… and I see brands doing it too.

    Chris is experimenting and blending platforms… that, in and of itself, makes it interesting (to me, at least). He may derive value from it… others may not… that’s what makes Marketing so fascinating to me.

    As for industry standards… they work if all you’re trying to do is benchmark your results against everyone else. I am sure the many breakthrough online advertising campaigns we’ve recently seen (Apple and The New York Times or Old Spice and YouTube) didn’t pay much attention the industry standards of online advertising. If the average CTR is 0.05 on a banner ad and you’re just hoping to beat that, it would be concerning to me as the agency of record.

  • mitchjoel

    @DannyBrown I think a lot of companies just try things long before thinking about what they’re willing to pay for a net new consumer. I see it in small, medium and even large businesses. I see agencies running programs without that detail… and I see brands doing it too.

    Chris is experimenting and blending platforms… that, in and of itself, makes it interesting (to me, at least). He may derive value from it… others may not… that’s what makes Marketing so fascinating to me.

    As for industry standards… they work if all you’re trying to do is benchmark your results against everyone else. I am sure the many breakthrough online advertising campaigns we’ve recently seen (Apple and The New York Times or Old Spice and YouTube) didn’t pay much attention the industry standards of online advertising. If the average CTR is 0.05 on a banner ad and you’re just hoping to beat that, it would be concerning to me as the agency of record.

  • @mitchjoel I agree with the “try before you buy” mindset, and we’ve had to help companies escape that thinking. Though I’d put that down to either poor management or a misunderstanding of what something can achieve (and that may have come from crap advice from an online blog or news source, or a poor previous agency or consultancy).

    With regards indsutry standards, you need to start somewhere to gauge where you want to go. You need to have the client know why Approach A (standard) didn’t work versus Approach B (brand new way of thinking). Otherwise, you’re just going in and saying, “We will do it this way” without the client having the faintest idea why you chose that way.

    Standards are good, because they’ve either worked (which is why they’re still standards) or they haven’t (which gives you stats and figures to use on why you’re not going the standard route).

    And yeah, I’m always concerned when someone just wants to beat “that” – but then that’s my job to find out why not a different win, and how we’re going to get there. It’s why we get paid, after all.

  • @mitchjoel I agree with the “try before you buy” mindset, and we’ve had to help companies escape that thinking. Though I’d put that down to either poor management or a misunderstanding of what something can achieve (and that may have come from crap advice from an online blog or news source, or a poor previous agency or consultancy).

    With regards indsutry standards, you need to start somewhere to gauge where you want to go. You need to have the client know why Approach A (standard) didn’t work versus Approach B (brand new way of thinking). Otherwise, you’re just going in and saying, “We will do it this way” without the client having the faintest idea why you chose that way.

    Standards are good, because they’ve either worked (which is why they’re still standards) or they haven’t (which gives you stats and figures to use on why you’re not going the standard route).

    And yeah, I’m always concerned when someone just wants to beat “that” – but then that’s my job to find out why not a different win, and how we’re going to get there. It’s why we get paid, after all.

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  • @ginidietrich noooooooo! @hannush just put you ahead! I better stop doing my other work and get commenting more again 🙂

  • @ginidietrich noooooooo! @hannush just put you ahead! I better stop doing my other work and get commenting more again 🙂

  • ok… I agree with you Gini.. but doing my due diligence, I had to go over and read the original Brogan post.. (I am so behind in reading) I agree with him too – because he did state that it was not an efficient use of time, but it was FUN – to HIM…

    I think it would be kind of fun to do too – when I publish my book… 🙂 Not as a plan, just as a random thing (no pun intended from my name, or is there?…lol)

    I’d rather have the 10K of course, but still the $10.00 he may have made was a cool experience for him and some readers…

    I mean he even researched who might like it… kind of cool really… a good marketing plan? Hmmmmm in the big scheme of things, NO… however, he did get a handful of people using social media to probably gush all over the story and now you have 156 comments as I read this – and it is giving him ALL KINDS of nice debate… so you tell me 😉

  • ok… I agree with you Gini.. but doing my due diligence, I had to go over and read the original Brogan post.. (I am so behind in reading) I agree with him too – because he did state that it was not an efficient use of time, but it was FUN – to HIM…

    I think it would be kind of fun to do too – when I publish my book… 🙂 Not as a plan, just as a random thing (no pun intended from my name, or is there?…lol)

    I’d rather have the 10K of course, but still the $10.00 he may have made was a cool experience for him and some readers…

    I mean he even researched who might like it… kind of cool really… a good marketing plan? Hmmmmm in the big scheme of things, NO… however, he did get a handful of people using social media to probably gush all over the story and now you have 156 comments as I read this – and it is giving him ALL KINDS of nice debate… so you tell me 😉

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  • JGoldsborough

    @ginidietrich @jennalanger If you don’t have the star power like Chris, what gets you closer, or even just some light-in-the-sky power is to engage with the customer throughout the customer journey (not JUST the sales funnel). That includes 1) When the customer isn’t even talking about yorur brand, but is discussing how to build trust (if we’re talking Trust Agents), 2) when the customer is considering a resource to help him/her build trust, 3) when the customer is ready to purchase and 4) after the purchase to see if the book helped the customer build trust.

    Now, that’s a lot of work and it may not be all humanly possible with only 24 hours in the day. But I’ll take 1, 2 and 4 before No. 3 anyday. In other words, I’ll take a relationship over a cold sales push — for what they hopefully deliver today in the bookstore and for the WOM they hopefully deliver over time.

    I think it would be hard to blog if I were Chris Brogan. So many caveats you have to throw in because you are not like the majority of your target audience.

  • JGoldsborough

    @ginidietrich @jennalanger If you don’t have the star power like Chris, what gets you closer, or even just some light-in-the-sky power is to engage with the customer throughout the customer journey (not JUST the sales funnel). That includes 1) When the customer isn’t even talking about yorur brand, but is discussing how to build trust (if we’re talking Trust Agents), 2) when the customer is considering a resource to help him/her build trust, 3) when the customer is ready to purchase and 4) after the purchase to see if the book helped the customer build trust.

    Now, that’s a lot of work and it may not be all humanly possible with only 24 hours in the day. But I’ll take 1, 2 and 4 before No. 3 anyday. In other words, I’ll take a relationship over a cold sales push — for what they hopefully deliver today in the bookstore and for the WOM they hopefully deliver over time.

    I think it would be hard to blog if I were Chris Brogan. So many caveats you have to throw in because you are not like the majority of your target audience.

  • FollowtheLawyer

    Some unrelated thoughts strung together:

    1) Any time you have to create narrow, highly specific scenarios under which an activity might yield limited theoretically favorable results, you’re in trouble.

    2) Why do we think that consumers are as eager to be reached, engaged — pick your friendly sounding term — as social media marketers are to reach and engage them?

    3) With so many well-intentioned merchants reaching out through multiple online and mobile channels to create meaningful connections — or just because they think it would be “fun” — at some point in the not-too-distant future will we be at risk for a backlash (e.g. If you want my opinion, what’s it worth to you)?

  • FollowtheLawyer

    Some unrelated thoughts strung together:

    1) Any time you have to create narrow, highly specific scenarios under which an activity might yield limited theoretically favorable results, you’re in trouble.

    2) Why do we think that consumers are as eager to be reached, engaged — pick your friendly sounding term — as social media marketers are to reach and engage them?

    3) With so many well-intentioned merchants reaching out through multiple online and mobile channels to create meaningful connections — or just because they think it would be “fun” — at some point in the not-too-distant future will we be at risk for a backlash (e.g. If you want my opinion, what’s it worth to you)?

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  • 3HatsComm

    @FollowtheLawyer I get what Chris was experimenting with, per @DannyBrown and @mitchjoel conversations about different marketing approaches. Chris refining his list is sorta the heart of direct marketing: you don’t shotgun, you narrow your pitch to specific people: those most likely to buy your product. It’s why I always think Apple and Coke overspend on advertising: I see too many ads, will buy their products anyway so on me, it’s wasted marketing; IMO they need to go after those on the fence.

    You’re right about consumers, how much do they really care about engagement when they know they’re being “sold.” I fall for clever marketing, upsells of the bigger size is only a few bucks more, blah blah. The backlash, I just saw a funny bit about fighting text spam (which I’ve been lucky enough to elude for now).. I just think the harder marketers force their way into our presence, the more we’ll push back. So spoiled by the DVR am I, it’s rare I don’t timeshift my viewing.. just to skip commercials. I can ignore or block out almost any popup ad. I see the tools developing so I can block pitches like Chris’ before I even get them. FWIW.

  • 3HatsComm

    @FollowtheLawyer I get what Chris was experimenting with, per @DannyBrown and @mitchjoel conversations about different marketing approaches. Chris refining his list is sorta the heart of direct marketing: you don’t shotgun, you narrow your pitch to specific people: those most likely to buy your product. It’s why I always think Apple and Coke overspend on advertising: I see too many ads, will buy their products anyway so on me, it’s wasted marketing; IMO they need to go after those on the fence.

    You’re right about consumers, how much do they really care about engagement when they know they’re being “sold.” I fall for clever marketing, upsells of the bigger size is only a few bucks more, blah blah. The backlash, I just saw a funny bit about fighting text spam (which I’ve been lucky enough to elude for now).. I just think the harder marketers force their way into our presence, the more we’ll push back. So spoiled by the DVR am I, it’s rare I don’t timeshift my viewing.. just to skip commercials. I can ignore or block out almost any popup ad. I see the tools developing so I can block pitches like Chris’ before I even get them. FWIW.

  • FollowtheLawyer
  • FollowtheLawyer
  • ginidietrich

    @RandomShelly I am going to beat you (in WWF)!

  • ginidietrich

    @RandomShelly I am going to beat you (in WWF)!

  • ginidietrich

    @DannyBrown @mitchjoel Not sure I have more to add to this that is different or of value. BUT! It is fun to see the two of you debating over here!

  • ginidietrich

    @DannyBrown @mitchjoel Not sure I have more to add to this that is different or of value. BUT! It is fun to see the two of you debating over here!

  • ginidietrich

    @dino_dogan I’m sorry. Do I know you? 🙂 You know, it’s funny you say this. My mom asked me the other day when I’m finally going to write the book I’ve been talking about writing since I was 10. I told her that everyone has a book these days and I want to use that dream for something that is different. She said, “I know you live in this bubble where it seems like everyone is writing books. But in the real world, it’s a big deal to write a book.”

  • ginidietrich

    @dino_dogan I’m sorry. Do I know you? 🙂 You know, it’s funny you say this. My mom asked me the other day when I’m finally going to write the book I’ve been talking about writing since I was 10. I told her that everyone has a book these days and I want to use that dream for something that is different. She said, “I know you live in this bubble where it seems like everyone is writing books. But in the real world, it’s a big deal to write a book.”

  • ginidietrich

    @aeringuy LOL! It makes me want to find where you are and sneakily tap you on the shoulder!

  • ginidietrich

    @aeringuy LOL! It makes me want to find where you are and sneakily tap you on the shoulder!

  • ginidietrich

    @hannush Drew! You’re a man of many words. 🙂

  • ginidietrich

    @hannush Drew! You’re a man of many words. 🙂

  • ginidietrich

    @FollowtheLawyer I love that you came back here and strung together those thoughts. I think that’s a guest post in the making. Care to write it?

  • ginidietrich

    @FollowtheLawyer I love that you came back here and strung together those thoughts. I think that’s a guest post in the making. Care to write it?

  • charityestrella

    @ginidietrich @sue_anne @DannyBrown Really? I love it when Wildfire or Wow Bao tweet me because they saw my foursquare check-in there. If I put it out into the public ether that I’m somewhere, I don’t find it creepy when a brand or just some random person comments on it. In fact, Wildfire and Wow Bao’s engagement makes me enjoy my experience there more. They know who I am. Goeff Alexander (Pres of Wow Bao) comes down from his office to chat if I’m at their Jackson location. This turned into them being one of the sponsors of our 1 year anniversary event, White Sox Bats For Big Love. AJ Bombers in Milwaukee has done such a good job of tweeting me after I’ve checked-in to Chicago restaurants and mentioned something like fries or burgers in my shout that I’m determined to drive an hour and a half to Milwaukee just to have a burger there.

    I think what Chris’ post was meant to do was show us how HE was using foursquare check-ins on twitter (and this way makes sense for him) and suggest that his readers who are like him might enjoy doing the same. His readers who aren’t like him (most of us!) should have just taken that as an opening to think about how we could adapt that to our own business.

    Of course there are all sorts of creepy ways people can and will use listening to the location-based things we put out there to try to gain us as a customer, follower, donor, etc. Hopefully you know your audience well enough to avoid being creepy. This also entails having common sense. I think Chris and other people like him, Danny included, expect that their readers possess this.

    However, if you know your audience, there are certainly ways to use them successfully and respectfully. Last year I noticed that many of my facebook friends in the heart defect community were commenting on a specific persons Foursquare check-in to Children’s Memorial Hospital here in Chicago (that she had linked to Facebook).

    One of our programs is to deliver care baskets to children undergoing procedures related to their heart defect at Children’s Memorial. The baskets aren’t pitches for donations – they’re a sincere service and we have a strong reputation in our community because of it. I friend requested her and included a message letting her know about our program and asking if she wanted me bring one to her and her son.

    Was she creeped out? No. She was happy I had reached out because she hadn’t known about us. After personally bringing her the basket and meeting her son, she and I had coffee – she has not only become a very close friend, she is my most active and committed Board Member.

    Not for all, but for many industries, there are ways to employ LBS listening to engage and produce results, whatever those desired results may be (different for everyone). I think we all agree on that 🙂

  • charityestrella

    @ginidietrich @sue_anne @DannyBrown Really? I love it when Wildfire or Wow Bao tweet me because they saw my foursquare check-in there. If I put it out into the public ether that I’m somewhere, I don’t find it creepy when a brand or just some random person comments on it. In fact, Wildfire and Wow Bao’s engagement makes me enjoy my experience there more. They know who I am. Goeff Alexander (Pres of Wow Bao) comes down from his office to chat if I’m at their Jackson location. This turned into them being one of the sponsors of our 1 year anniversary event, White Sox Bats For Big Love. AJ Bombers in Milwaukee has done such a good job of tweeting me after I’ve checked-in to Chicago restaurants and mentioned something like fries or burgers in my shout that I’m determined to drive an hour and a half to Milwaukee just to have a burger there.

    I think what Chris’ post was meant to do was show us how HE was using foursquare check-ins on twitter (and this way makes sense for him) and suggest that his readers who are like him might enjoy doing the same. His readers who aren’t like him (most of us!) should have just taken that as an opening to think about how we could adapt that to our own business.

    Of course there are all sorts of creepy ways people can and will use listening to the location-based things we put out there to try to gain us as a customer, follower, donor, etc. Hopefully you know your audience well enough to avoid being creepy. This also entails having common sense. I think Chris and other people like him, Danny included, expect that their readers possess this.

    However, if you know your audience, there are certainly ways to use them successfully and respectfully. Last year I noticed that many of my facebook friends in the heart defect community were commenting on a specific persons Foursquare check-in to Children’s Memorial Hospital here in Chicago (that she had linked to Facebook).

    One of our programs is to deliver care baskets to children undergoing procedures related to their heart defect at Children’s Memorial. The baskets aren’t pitches for donations – they’re a sincere service and we have a strong reputation in our community because of it. I friend requested her and included a message letting her know about our program and asking if she wanted me bring one to her and her son.

    Was she creeped out? No. She was happy I had reached out because she hadn’t known about us. After personally bringing her the basket and meeting her son, she and I had coffee – she has not only become a very close friend, she is my most active and committed Board Member.

    Not for all, but for many industries, there are ways to employ LBS listening to engage and produce results, whatever those desired results may be (different for everyone). I think we all agree on that 🙂

  • ginidietrich

    @charityestrella I think it’s kind of funny that my blog post went from “this doesn’t make sense for businesses to try” to “it’s creepy that people stalk others online.” I actually agree with you that there are ways to use LBS to engage customers. And the examples you use work for me! But that wasn’t the point of the blog post. This has been totally fun…lots of people weighing in and providing LOTS of ideas!

  • ginidietrich

    @charityestrella I think it’s kind of funny that my blog post went from “this doesn’t make sense for businesses to try” to “it’s creepy that people stalk others online.” I actually agree with you that there are ways to use LBS to engage customers. And the examples you use work for me! But that wasn’t the point of the blog post. This has been totally fun…lots of people weighing in and providing LOTS of ideas!

  • charityestrella

    @FollowtheLawyer Agreed that this tactic would be creepy if most people did it, but I just don’t think he was implying that all of us should use it that way.

    I commented elsewhere in this maze of (insightful and well thought out!) comments…but I do think that thinking about how listening to what people willingly put out into the public through location based services can be effective for many types of businesses and produce good results. As with everything, it depends on your audience and the results you’re seeking.

    Whether or not I agree with the necessity of your post, Gini – it’s produced a much more creative conversation that the comments on Chris’ post about it. You guys are all super smart….of course you are. You’re reading Gini’s blog.

  • charityestrella

    @FollowtheLawyer Agreed that this tactic would be creepy if most people did it, but I just don’t think he was implying that all of us should use it that way.

    I commented elsewhere in this maze of (insightful and well thought out!) comments…but I do think that thinking about how listening to what people willingly put out into the public through location based services can be effective for many types of businesses and produce good results. As with everything, it depends on your audience and the results you’re seeking.

    Whether or not I agree with the necessity of your post, Gini – it’s produced a much more creative conversation that the comments on Chris’ post about it. You guys are all super smart….of course you are. You’re reading Gini’s blog.

  • FollowtheLawyer

    @ginidietrich I’d be delighted! Thanks for the invitation!

  • FollowtheLawyer

    @ginidietrich I’d be delighted! Thanks for the invitation!

  • @charityestrella Probably because a lot of Chris’s comments are based around the “great post” mantra, as opposed to extending the conversation. Not all, but many. 😉

  • @charityestrella Probably because a lot of Chris’s comments are based around the “great post” mantra, as opposed to extending the conversation. Not all, but many. 😉

  • HowieSPM

    @ginidietrich @DannyBrown @mitchjoel For once an inter-canadian battle vs the cross border skirimishes I get into on Twitter.

    I do wish to address Mitch’s original post. Because it falls in with the ROI you brought up Gini. And also explains why many businesses have zero need for Fan Pages and Social Media. If I sell Yachts one sale could be huge. If I sell pencils I might need 1000’s of people buying and converting a few from high effort makes no sense. In fact retailers themselves (many brand’s middleperson) could prove much more value to a company than any direct marketing effort.

    So really it all starts with the ‘What is a customer worth to you’ not just revenues but margins as well. What Chris proposed could work really well in real estate or selling Boeing airplanes. one relationship could mean a lot. On that note isn’t that EXACTLY what Twitter is? Is what Chris proposing any different than talking to the same type of person outside of the book store? Isn’t that what Twitter Search is for? Seems like he stole something that exists, repackaged it and claimed it as his won 8)

  • HowieSPM

    @ginidietrich @DannyBrown @mitchjoel For once an inter-canadian battle vs the cross border skirimishes I get into on Twitter.

    I do wish to address Mitch’s original post. Because it falls in with the ROI you brought up Gini. And also explains why many businesses have zero need for Fan Pages and Social Media. If I sell Yachts one sale could be huge. If I sell pencils I might need 1000’s of people buying and converting a few from high effort makes no sense. In fact retailers themselves (many brand’s middleperson) could prove much more value to a company than any direct marketing effort.

    So really it all starts with the ‘What is a customer worth to you’ not just revenues but margins as well. What Chris proposed could work really well in real estate or selling Boeing airplanes. one relationship could mean a lot. On that note isn’t that EXACTLY what Twitter is? Is what Chris proposing any different than talking to the same type of person outside of the book store? Isn’t that what Twitter Search is for? Seems like he stole something that exists, repackaged it and claimed it as his won 8)

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  • amvandenhurk

    ginidietrich @dino_dogan Gini, we do live in a bubble. A bubble we share with some pretty cool people who have set expectations high. As it should be. I’d rather reach for the bar then bend over to pick it up. Our Moms are correct: It is a big deal we wrote books.

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